Author Topic: Large family structures, late 19th century, especially the placing of children  (Read 2032 times)

Offline JenB

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,856
    • View Profile
Re: Large family structures, late 19th century, especially the placing of children
« Reply #36 on: Saturday 06 November 21 21:18 GMT (UK) »
Quote

How exactly did you discover this situation? (you say 'by accident')


I think Peter must be referring to the story of Elizabeth Dial.

I wouldn’t exactly say she was found by accident. Rather a lot of hard work by Rootschatters went into piecing the story together!

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=840771.msg7068545#msg7068545
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Ruskie

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,011
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Large family structures, late 19th century, especially the placing of children
« Reply #37 on: Saturday 06 November 21 22:59 GMT (UK) »
An interesting thread.  :)

I understand your curiosity about your DNA matches and the need to try to work out what might have been going on in the family.

It’s a bit late to add my tuppence worth as the thread has already had lots of contributions, but depending on what proof you can find, I would suggest not to read too much in children living with other relatives. If the only evidence you have is finding the child on the census for example, that is one day in ten years, and you can’t really draw any conclusions from that alone.

It was so common to ship kids out to other family members for all sorts of reasons. :)

Order of baptisms? Unsure if you can glean much from that - I think many of us have some illogical examples in our families - including missing births/baptisms.  :)

I love how rootschat detective look at all angles .make deductions and look for proof .

Isn’t it advisable to collect the facts/evidence first, then try to work out a likely series of events, rather than concocting a story and then looking for proof to fit that narrative/theory?   :-\

Added:
Are “Smith” and “Jones” their real surnames? I found it difficult to follow your mentions of child 1, 2 and various relationships. As these people are long dead, giving their full names might make it easier to follow and unravel the quite complex (possible) relationships. Though it might just be me getting very muddled.  ;D

As I’m sure you already know, DNA can be quite randomly passed down, even skipping generations. I have some examples of this in my family. Have you tested later generations, and other family members to see what their results show?

Good luck with the search.
 

guest259648

  • Guest
Re: Large family structures, late 19th century, especially the placing of children
« Reply #38 on: Sunday 07 November 21 09:18 GMT (UK) »
An interesting thread.  :)

I understand your curiosity about your DNA matches and the need to try to work out what might have been going on in the family.

It’s a bit late to add my tuppence worth as the thread has already had lots of contributions, but depending on what proof you can find, I would suggest not to read too much in children living with other relatives. If the only evidence you have is finding the child on the census for example, that is one day in ten years, and you can’t really draw any conclusions from that alone.

It was so common to ship kids out to other family members for all sorts of reasons. :)

Order of baptisms? Unsure if you can glean much from that - I think many of us have some illogical examples in our families - including missing births/baptisms.  :)

I love how rootschat detective look at all angles .make deductions and look for proof .

Isn’t it advisable to collect the facts/evidence first, then try to work out a likely series of events, rather than concocting a story and then looking for proof to fit that narrative/theory?   :-\




Ruskie
You're very wise and experienced and I respect everything you say here.
You're not muddled at all.

To explain: In this particular case, the family is my own. A few months ago I received my DNA results - which didn't show what I expected, not at all. I haven't given the true surnames on RootsChat (for my own privacy), however if you would keep them out of the public eye, I can send them to you in a private message?

Since I received my Very Strange Results, I have done a lot of digging, and asking, and uncovering.
And I now know that the surname I was born with, isn't my surname at all.

I agree that it's far better to start with the facts and build a story from those. (It's never advisable to force facts to fit a pet theory.)

If I were just researching something I'd spotted on a census, and then wondered about, I wouldn't be able to be so sure about the truth. But because this matter is personal, and it's my own family, I can be a lot more certain.

And the ideas and tips given to me on RootsChat did point me in the right direction.

I hope that helps.

D x


guest259648

  • Guest
Re: Large family structures, late 19th century, especially the placing of children
« Reply #39 on: Sunday 07 November 21 09:29 GMT (UK) »








Added:
Are “Smith” and “Jones” their real surnames? I found it difficult to follow your mentions of child 1, 2 and various relationships. As these people are long dead, giving their full names might make it easier to follow and unravel the quite complex (possible) relationships. Though it might just be me getting very muddled.  ;D


P.S. Ruskie
I don't know which country you're based in.
I live in the UK. If we are trying to make things anonymous, we reach for the surnames 'Smith' and 'Jones' because they are so numerous and so very common.

"Alias Smith and Jones", it's a phrase in the language.

There was even a UK comedy show some decades back called "ALAS Smith and Jones" ['alas', as in 'oh dear'!!... it's not a spelling mistake] - but it does refer, in a comic way, to the names we commonly use, to disguise out true identity.

Mr & Mrs Smith is also a regular thing that couples write when signing a hotel register, for a secret night of passion... (I've worked in hotels!)

An analogy: I think the Spaniards use Gonzales as their all-purpose surname (please correct me if wrong). Perhaps all countries have their own regular surnames used as aliases, I'd like to know more.

D x

Offline Peter L. Mitchell

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Large family structures, late 19th century, especially the placing of children
« Reply #40 on: Friday 03 December 21 11:50 GMT (UK) »
Hi folks.

I just saw JenB's comment and had to clarify "I found her by accident six months ago." What I meant was that I first became aware of her existence when I noticed an anomaly in the 1851 census. My great-great grandparents had married in 1850 but the census named Elizabeth aged 2 years as their daughter. It was only through the amazing work of several RootsChat contributors (including JenB, who did a brilliant job - thank you!) that the whole story unfolded.

Like everyone else who uses this site I am incredibly grateful for the wonderful advice, help and support so freely given by so many incredibly knowledgeable people.

Thank you everyone!

Peter

guest259648

  • Guest
Re: Large family structures, late 19th century, especially the placing of children
« Reply #41 on: Friday 03 December 21 14:03 GMT (UK) »
Hi folks.

I just saw JenB's comment and had to clarify "I found her by accident six months ago." What I meant was that I first became aware of her existence when I noticed an anomaly in the 1851 census. My great-great grandparents had married in 1850 but the census named Elizabeth aged 2 years as their daughter. It was only through the amazing work of several RootsChat contributors (including JenB, who did a brilliant job - thank you!) that the whole story unfolded.

Like everyone else who uses this site I am incredibly grateful for the wonderful advice, help and support so freely given by so many incredibly knowledgeable people.

Thank you everyone!

Peter

Hi Peter
I fully understand the surprise of noticing anomalies... which then lead to further discoveries... and indeed it was completely accidental that you discovered something about your family which you never knew or you were never told.

Look at me:  my DNA results have shown me that my surname isn't my surname! Accidental discovery. I'm still getting used to it.

Yes, like yourself, I'm guided by very many wonderful people on this site who know things I don't.  It's a collective effort, and together we can supply the pieces, and the keys, to unlock long-standing mysteries.

x

Online shanreagh

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,019
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Large family structures, late 19th century, especially the placing of children
« Reply #42 on: Sunday 05 December 21 06:51 GMT (UK) »

""Room for one more". I really like that."

My grandmother a very hospitable lady born in Ireland who migrated to NZ then had 9 children of her own used this phrase as well in relation to offering a meal or a roof over the head for visiting school teachers or travelling religious people of any denomination.