Author Topic: Training as a surgeon - any records?  (Read 402 times)

Offline Jang

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Training as a surgeon - any records?
« on: Sunday 24 October 21 01:31 BST (UK) »
I'm trying to find out more about a John Keating, surgeon, who was a cabin passenger, aged 37, Irish, on the "Jamestown" from Liverpool to New York, in 1850. Sadly he died at sea on 25 June 1850.

Are there any records of medical training available for this period?

Jan
England:
Durham: COULSON, FENWICK, HUNTER, LOWES, NAYLOR, ROBSON
Norfolk: DEWING, OUGHTON, TAYLOR,
Lancashire: TWEDDLE
Ireland: KEATING, KIRBY, Limerick; NELSON, Donegal
Scotland: BENNIE, Glasgow; COOK, Renfrewshire; HENDERSON, Alloa/Dundee; HUNTER, Glasgow; KIRKWOOD, Alloa; LAMONT, Dalkeith; YOUNG, Glasgow
Switzerland: VOSTI, DELUBINI
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Training as a surgeon - any records?
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 24 October 21 01:41 BST (UK) »
I believe there are early records for Edinburgh http://www.archives.lib.ed.ac.uk/alumni/search.php?view=individual1&id=5715 but I don’t know about other places.

This might give you some direction:
https://www.rcgp.org.uk/about-us/the-college/who-we-are/history-heritage-and-archive/researching-a-medical-ancestor.aspx

If he was Irish you might like to check Dublin. There may be something here:
https://www.rcpi.ie/heritage-centre/our-archive-collections/

It may also be that in those days he served an apprenticeship rather than attending a formal medical school. Something to consider?

Offline shume

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Re: Training as a surgeon - any records?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 24 October 21 02:07 BST (UK) »
This may not help but we have a doctor in our family history studied Trinity College, Dublin then Edinburgh University graduated 1833. Also his uncle served in army as surgeon 1828 but not sure what his training involved.
Trinity alumni are online https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/3736276

shume
HUME: Fermanagh, Donegal,Sligo,Australia
PASFIELD: Essex, London
SHAW/STANLEY: Co Waterford,Ireland, Australia


Offline Ruskie

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Re: Training as a surgeon - any records?
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 24 October 21 03:01 BST (UK) »
That looks to be a useful link shume.

I don’t know if I am stupid, but though you are supposed to be able to search by name on the “collections detail page”, that page doesn’t seem to have any search boxes. I’m not determined enough to persevere, though I was curious to see if John appeared.

I hope Jan can work it out.  :)

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Training as a surgeon - any records?
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 24 October 21 04:45 BST (UK) »


Possibly  there was no training.  Until the use of ether, mid 1840s, surgery was mostly amputations. The skill needed for amputations was speed, so as to minimise shock of blood loss. Butchers often performed the amputations. 

Continuing, and as I understand it -

Later, when surgeons were medical graduates who specialised in surgery to become a surgeon, they were not addressed as Doctor, but as Mister, which continues today, with some interest to end this job title.

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Training as a surgeon - any records?
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 24 October 21 05:28 BST (UK) »
As has been alluded to, physicians and surgeons were not (are not) the same thing.
A physician was a gentleman, with a university education.
A surgeon was not ipso facto a gentleman, did not necessarily attend university, and may have had little formal education, instead training via apprenticeship. That said, there were various "royal" colleges of surgery.

So, after all that, what sort of surgeon was this John Keating?
- A ship's surgeon?
- A military surgeon?
- A civil surgeon?
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Ballygarrett; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Monadurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex

Offline Jang

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Re: Training as a surgeon - any records?
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 24 October 21 05:45 BST (UK) »
Thanks everyone for your responses.  :-) Some great links to explore.

Ruskie, I couldn't find a way to search that collection either until I went to FindMyPast where I found several possibilities to follow up.

Wexflyer, I don't know what sort of surgeon he might be. I have one ancestor who trained at the Apothecaries Hall in Dublin in 1833, then working as a physician there until he emigrated to Australia in 1841. I'm following up this John Keating who could be his brother - the age is right and there's no sign of him in Limerick after his baptism.
England:
Durham: COULSON, FENWICK, HUNTER, LOWES, NAYLOR, ROBSON
Norfolk: DEWING, OUGHTON, TAYLOR,
Lancashire: TWEDDLE
Ireland: KEATING, KIRBY, Limerick; NELSON, Donegal
Scotland: BENNIE, Glasgow; COOK, Renfrewshire; HENDERSON, Alloa/Dundee; HUNTER, Glasgow; KIRKWOOD, Alloa; LAMONT, Dalkeith; YOUNG, Glasgow
Switzerland: VOSTI, DELUBINI
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk