Probate of a 1645 Will

[Llanfihangel]

Hi,
I have a copy of a Will made by William Phillip Gwatkin of Bronllys, Breconshire, in 1645. He left his entire estate as a marriage settlement for Thomas Games "his foster son and kinsman" and Anne daughter of Walter Prosser; an illustrious family of Talgarth, Breconshire. The wedding was to take place when Thomas came of age, apparently a very short time after William Gwatkin made his Will.
William did make provision for his wife Gwenllian Richard, but there are no children or immediate relatives identified as recipients for any of his very extensive estate

I can't find any record of Thomas Games, except that Theophilus Jones in his "History of Breconshire" asserted that the renowned Games family of Breconshire disavowed this Thomas as a member of their family. I can't find any further record of Thomas Games and Anne's marriage, Anne, or any likely progeny.

There is a note attached to the Will that might help. I have sent it with this request, and I would really like to know what it means.

All help will be greatly appreciated (again!)

Thanks

Llanfi

[horselydown86]

It's a basic statement of a bond.

Thomas Games of Talgarth and Edward Prosser of Brecon in the County of Brecon are bound to a Reverend Father Roger of a diocese named here as something like meneven*.

The bond is for one hundred pounds of good and lawful English money.

The date is in March of 1645.  The day part is partially obscured but ends with 7.

*    This name may be contracted.

[Llanfihangel]

Hello horeselydown86

Nice to hear from you again!

The deciphered note tells all!

The Will states that Thomas Games and Walter Prosser were to make a bond of 100 pounds to ensure that the terms of William Gwatkin's will were to be carried out to the letter.
It seems that a Bond was indeed made and the intended marriage took place.

The diocese of meneven threw me at first, until I realised that the Reverend Father Roger would have been a Catholic. Brecon is still in the Catholic Diocese of Menevia...  see "St. Michael’s Catholic Church in Brecon—one of the most historic Churches in the Diocese of Menevia."

Many thanks to you all at Rootschat.. Please stay safe!

Llanfi 

[Llanfihangel]

Hello  :)all!
Just so I know,

Is the outlined signature Walter Edward Prosser?

Thanks

Llanfi

[horselydown86]

Is the outlined signature Walter Edward Prosser?

Definitely not:

Wa: p(ro)sser senior

Wal: prosser Junior

Wa: and Wal: both = Walter, of course.

I'm guessing you're wondering about the Edward in the bond.  It's definitely written Edward there.

Reading this will extract, it's not setting up the same bond.

It says TG is to:

...enter into a bond unto the
said Walter Prosser or Walter Prosser his sonne & heire of the
penaltie of One hundred pound(es)... etc

So they must have subsequently decided to vary the requirement, making it more powerful by binding to the diocesan official.

ADDED:

This is speculation only, but my sense is that the Prossers didn't have complete faith in TG's ability or integrity and wanted to put the matter under stricter control.

[Llanfihangel]

Hello horselydown86

There seems to have been some doubt that Thomas Games was a legitimate member of the historic Games family. There is no explanation in the Will of his origin other that he was "foster son and kinsman" of William Phillip Gwatkin. William refers to his wife as Gwenllian Richard, and consitently refers to "Thomas Games and Anne" The witnesses are all Prossers, and there are no signature by Gwenllian or anyone from the Games family.

The note declaring a completed Bond implies that the anticipated marriage took place and the property transferred according to William's instructions. But 100 pounds was not a lot to risk in order to gain title. Maybe it was an made by Edward Prosser and Thomas Games to assist the Will's probate.

However, there is no probate confirmation or Bond attached to the Will, and that is very unusual...
And there is no further record of Thomas Games or Anne Prosser that I can find.

Cheers,

Llanfi 

[Bookbox]

The diocese of meneven threw me at first, until I realised that the Reverend Father Roger would have been a Catholic.

Probate was not issued by Catholic clergy. Menevia is the Latin form of St Davids. This tells you something about the Reverend Father Roger, former Bishop of St Davids ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Maynwaring

[Llanfihangel]

Hello All!

The terms of the Will itself required a Bond of $100, but by Thomas Games and Walter Prosser. Was the Bond by Thomas Games and Edward Prosser to the Reverend Father Roger its equivalent?

 It's very interesting that the Bishop is Roger Mainwaring. Wiki states that he was deprived of his see in 1646. However, the Clergy of the Church of England database shows that Roger Mainwaring had tenure at St David's from 1636 to 1653 but the diocese was "Post Episcopal" from 1646 to 1660". If the Rev. Father Roger was the legitimate bishop of Brecon at the time the Bond was made (March 1645), maybe the scribbled note is also equivalent to a probate..(?)

Cheers,

Llanfi   

[Bookbox]

Was the Bond by Thomas Games and Edward Prosser to the Reverend Father Roger its equivalent?

I don't see how a bond can serve as an act of probate. Its purpose is entirely different.

It's very interesting that the Bishop is Roger Mainwaring. Wiki states that he was deprived of his see in 1646. However, the Clergy of the Church of England database shows that Roger Mainwaring had tenure at St David's from 1636 to 1653 but the diocese was "Post Episcopal" from 1646 to 1660". If the Rev. Father Roger was the legitimate bishop of Brecon at the time the Bond was made (March 1645), maybe the scribbled note is also equivalent to a probate..(?)

It appears that Roger Maynwaring was still in office in March 1645 and in March 1646. It wasn't until October 1646 that all Bishops were abolished under the Commonwealth. I don't think his status can be relevant to the case.

Why there is no probate, I couldn't say. Does the National Library of Wales wills index throw any light? Perhaps you could email them to ask? I've always found them quite responsive to queries.

(Sorry I can't look into this easily right now, as I'm on a small-screen phone and away from home.)