Allen Roberts Born in Llansilin? 1876/77

[GaiaFletch]

Hi I'm new to this so apologies if I'm rambling nonsense.

Searching my ggreatgrandad's side and ive come across a 'brother' on the 1891 census.
Allen Roberts born in Llansilin (different location to everyone else) approx. 1878 - 13yo occupation general servant.
Now I'm thrown because even though he would be the eldest 'sibling' he is listed at the bottom with another brother Edward age 10.
His father John was born in 1858 which would make sense he could have had a child at this age but the mother Anne was born 1863 which would if made her 15 which is a possibility, but they do not marry until 1882.
Could John of been previously Married? how would I find this out? I can not find anymore information on Allen what so ever.
Any advise would be very much appreciated,
Many Thanks

[jim1]

Have you found a birth for him?
Have you found him in 1881?
It's possible he's the illegitimate child of Anne
& given the husband's name at marriage.
Try looking for him under his mother's surname.
Can't look myself as you haven't given it.

[emeltom]

Llansilin comes under Oswestry. The GRO Index has the following birth

Allen Jones Dec 1877 Oswestry 6a 721 no mmn

[GaiaFletch]

Good afternoon,

Im glad you mentioned that maybe Allen is actually Anne's illegitimate son as after spending hours looking at what I can find this is my presumption.

He is very clearly on the 1891 census with brother Edward age 10 both down as son's. I believe Edward may be Johns son out of wedlock as they marry in 1882 when Edward would of been approx. 1 years old.
I can not find any of them on the 1881 census including Anne, would it be possible she was sent away? she comes from a large family of farmers, I don't know if this would of brought shame on them or inconveniences!

Do from you know if illegitimate children's births were always recorded? Going back to the 1891 census Allen's birth place states Llansilin but Edwards states Glyn Ceiriog this is Anne's home village where she has lived her whole life.
Anne's maiden name is also Roberts.

It states  on the 1911 census that she had 9 children born alive only 7 were still alive at that time but someone has put a red line through this at some point?
The 7 children alive I have records for all of them.

I will take a look at Allen Jones.

Thanks

[jim1]

Not even legitimate births were always recorded.
Do you have their marriage cert?

[GaiaFletch]

I don’t have a marriage certificate.
I do know the date was May 12th 1882 and the location is Corwen registry office.

[jim1]

It might be worth getting it.

[Gadget]

I don’t have a marriage certificate.
I do know the date was May 12th 1882 and the location is Corwen registry office.

Can you give the  source as I don't see it so far.

Ignore that I misread the father's name and put in Allen!

[Gadget]

Full ref is Corwen, Q2 1882, 11b, 580

John Roberts and Ann Roberts


PS -  Llansanffraid Glynceiriog was  in the Corwen RD