Author Topic: Craig / Doherty Emberton Victoria  (Read 1174 times)

Offline dennisryan

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 15
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Craig / Doherty Emberton Victoria
« on: Wednesday 27 October 21 08:19 BST (UK) »
Am seeking information about my great grandparents: John Craig and Hannah Doherty who lived at Emberton near Kyneton in Victoria in the 1860's.
The only information known is from my grandmother's (Mary Craig) 1889 marriage certificate. Age 20 she married Michael Ryan at the R.C.Church Kyneton.
The certificate states her father John Craig was a farmer from Emberton. It is not clear if her parents were alive though Mary was born and still resided at Emberton. 

Offline sparrett

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,987
    • View Profile
Re: Craig / Doherty Emberton Victoria
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 27 October 21 11:24 BST (UK) »
Hi
It would be a great start to your inquiry if you would kindly take the time to type out Everything on the marriage certificate which you mentioned you have.

Each column heading and the exact word for word information in the space beneath it.

Sometimes the individual interpretation of the information contained  makes a difference  -small clues might help.

Sue

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline sparrett

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,987
    • View Profile
Re: Craig / Doherty Emberton Victoria
« Reply #2 on: Friday 29 October 21 03:46 BST (UK) »
For example-

On that document, who gave permission for the underage Mary Ellen CRAIG to marry?

Who were the witnesses to the marriage?

What was the name and occupation of the bridegroom Michael RYAN's  father?

The blue reply button is located at the top or at the bottom of a page when you are signed in. :)

Sue

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline dennisryan

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 15
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Craig / Doherty Emberton Victoria
« Reply #3 on: Friday 29 October 21 06:21 BST (UK) »
Hi Sue, thanks for your interest.

Written consent was issued by the Magistrate for Minors: John Joseph O'Meara

Witnesses: Denis Dewar/Dewan, the other signature is indecipherable but certainly not Craig.

Bridegroom's father: Patrick Ryan farmer (both of Michael's parents were deceased at time of the wedding).

In 1986 when the copy of the certificate of marriage was obtained from the BDM office in Melbourne I requested any certificates relating to John and Hanna Craig but nothing was available.
Later checks online at the PROV did not reveal any siblings etc.
Mary Craig Ryan's 1950 death certificate states her parents were John Craig and Johanna Craig nee Doherty

My father and an aunty knew nothing about the Craig family.

Offline wivenhoe

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,238
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Craig / Doherty Emberton Victoria
« Reply #4 on: Friday 29 October 21 06:48 BST (UK) »

Can you please list all the information on the marriage certificate.

We need to see all the information, everything, and listed, not discussed conversationally.

If you have relevant comments to add, you need to place them after the list of details. 

Can you also comment on who signs their name, and who uses their mark (X).


Offline dennisryan

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 15
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Craig / Doherty Emberton Victoria
« Reply #5 on: Friday 29 October 21 07:29 BST (UK) »
Attached is the marriage certificate.

Offline sparrett

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,987
    • View Profile
Re: Craig / Doherty Emberton Victoria
« Reply #6 on: Friday 29 October 21 07:43 BST (UK) »
HI
Thanks for the extra details.

I would say that if the stated father, John CRAIG were living, it would have been he who gave consent for his daughter to marry.

This is even more likely as the marriage was close to the home of both bride and her father.

I think there may be another contributor to the forum, JM, who may describe more clearly the role of the Magistrate for Minors.

The second witness might be Margaret Kitchener??

Sue
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline sparrett

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,987
    • View Profile
Re: Craig / Doherty Emberton Victoria
« Reply #7 on: Friday 29 October 21 08:00 BST (UK) »
I am just posting this as an item of interest, merely on the grounds that it matches some of the known criteria. 

There is not a likely birth registration for Mary CRAIG, so perhaps we need to think more widely.

Noting also that your Mary's death registration shows mother Johanna (but could well be known as Hannah of course)

Birth
John DOHERTY
Year 1870
Place Kyneton, Victoria
Father-
Mother Joanna Doherty
Reg 3171

Sue

 
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,621
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: Craig / Doherty Emberton Victoria
« Reply #8 on: Friday 29 October 21 08:26 BST (UK) »
Yes,  Guardian of Minors, could be a senior BDM Registrar or a Police Magistrate back in the 1800s.  And of course you were not yet of FULL age until reaching 21 years.  So you were a MINOR, until then.  (In fact in NSW in that era, you were legally considered an INFANT until 21).  Your legal voice could not be heard.  You needed someone responsible for you to become your voice at law.  Marriage is a contract, so if you were 21 or over, you gave your own consent when you signed it.  (Since 1970s, that is now 18 years and over). 


In NSW, so likely similar in Victoria, and in fact currently across Australia, the option exists for a justice officer to consider and provide or deny consent to a male or a female who has not yet reached the age by which they can give their own consent to marry.

Back to the mid to late 1800s in NSW (I expect similar provisions in Victoria Marriage Acts), for a person aged under 21 years to marry (whether Male or Female) the person responsible to give that consent usually fell into the following order :  Father, or Step Father,  Brother aged 21 and over, then Mother...  IF the Guardian of Minors (Police Magistrate or someone Justice of the Peace appointed by Registrar Generals Office, or similar rank) ... anyway, if the Guardian of Minors was asked to give permission, it would be very likely that the MINOR was without relatives in the Colony. (deserted, prison/asylum, newly arrived unaccompanied migrant, etc, parent/s still alive, back in Home country, and no address known etc etc etc).

Hope this helps, hope it makes good sense,  one finger typed, on my e reader into a tiny dialogue box.

JM
 
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.