Author Topic: A marriage in Islington 1912  (Read 2635 times)

Offline Newfloridian

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,093
  • MENE INTUS ET IN CUTE NOVISTI
    • View Profile
Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 03 November 21 08:59 GMT (UK) »
Charles William Burrows (of 10 Ironmonger Street) was buried at Islington Cemetery  on January 14th 1933
Leicester / Northampton: Craxford,  Claypole, Pridmore, Pollard, Tansley, Crane, Tilley
Derby: Naylor, Ball, Haywood
Buckinghamshire: Cook
London: Craxford, Lane Crauford
Tyneside: Nessworthy, Simpson
______________________________________
"I am, in point of fact, a particularly haughty and exclusive person, of pre-Adamite ancestral descent.
You will understand this when I tell you that I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmal primordial atomic globule."
  -  WS Gilbert (The Mikado)

Offline cuffie81

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,028
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 03 November 21 20:34 GMT (UK) »
There’s an Alice E. in 1939 born ***** but her surname is Childs.

I don't think this is the Alice we're looking for, her middle name is Elizabeth.

GRO reference:
1963 Q1 Death - Alice E Childs; age 97 (mmn: 1866); Woolwich; 5d; 1335


Electoral registers:
1937-1939 - 278 Halfway Street, Sidcup
Alice Elizabeth Childs

1937-1939 - 276 Halfway Street, Sidcup
Arthur Edmund Cecil Jarrett, Beatrice Alice Clara Jarrett


Probate index
Alice Elizabeth Childs
of 278 Halfway Street, Sidcup, Kent
widow
died 15 Jan 1963
at Memorial Hospital Shooters Hill, Kent
Probate
to Beatrice Alice Clara Jarrett
(wife of Arthur Edmund Cecil Jarrett)
and the said Arthur Edmund Cecil Jarrett, railway official
Effects £736

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=childs&yearOfDeath=1963#calendar
Anderson Banks Beard Brewer Caves Clarke Clinch Cooling Cuff Denton Gamble Gibson Gunn Hunt Mills Muncey Norris Notzke Reid Robinson Searle Smith Trundle Turner Weedon Wells Wilson

Offline cuffie81

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,028
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 03 November 21 20:39 GMT (UK) »
Charles William Burrows & Alice E Williams

Electoral registers:
1926-1928 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington
- Alice Burrows, Charles William Burrows,
- Bridget Gilder, John Joseph Henry Gilder,
- Emily Lloyd, Michael Lloyd

1930 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington
- Alice Burrows, Charles William Burrows,
- Claude Evan Giles, Ellen Elizabeth Giles,
- Emily Lloyd, Michael Lloyd,
- Horace Frederick Trott, Minnie Florence Trott
                                    
1932 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington
- Alice Burrows, Charles William Burrows,
- Winifred Mary Bond,
- Catherine Lloyd, Emily Lloyd, Michael Lloyd,
- Horace Frederick Trott, Minnie Florence Trott


Not that it helps much but Alice & Charles were at the same address in earlier years.

1919 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington
- Alice Burrows, Charles William Burrows,
- Bridget Gilder, John Joseph Henry Gilder,
- Emily Lloyd, Michael Lloyd,
- Sarah Golton

1920 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington
- Alice Burrows, Charles William Burrows,
- Bridget Gilder, John Joseph Henry Gilder,
- Emily Lloyd, Michael Lloyd,
- Sarah Goldon

1921-1922 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington      
- Alice Burrows, Charles William Burrows,
- Bridget Gilder, John Joseph Henry Gilder,
- Emily Lloyd, Michael Lloyd

1924-1928 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington      
- Alice Burrows, Charles William Burrows,
- Bridget Gilder, John Joseph Henry Gilder,
- Emily Lloyd, Michael Lloyd
Anderson Banks Beard Brewer Caves Clarke Clinch Cooling Cuff Denton Gamble Gibson Gunn Hunt Mills Muncey Norris Notzke Reid Robinson Searle Smith Trundle Turner Weedon Wells Wilson

Offline Newfloridian

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,093
  • MENE INTUS ET IN CUTE NOVISTI
    • View Profile
Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 03 November 21 21:26 GMT (UK) »
I'm just wondering if the answer to where Alice Evangeline went could be answered by what happened to her son Claud(e) Evan.

There is no doubt that Claud(e) was Evan William's son born when Evan and Alice were living together. Claud(e) was registered Giles mmn Craxford.
I would say it is also beyond reasonable doubt that Alice was married to Charles Burrows because Claud(e) and his wife were living with them in Ironmonger Street in 1930.

After Charles died, did Alice move with her son and daughter in law? I haven't yet found any of them in the 1939 Register. ?moved abroad perhaps

Alan
Leicester / Northampton: Craxford,  Claypole, Pridmore, Pollard, Tansley, Crane, Tilley
Derby: Naylor, Ball, Haywood
Buckinghamshire: Cook
London: Craxford, Lane Crauford
Tyneside: Nessworthy, Simpson
______________________________________
"I am, in point of fact, a particularly haughty and exclusive person, of pre-Adamite ancestral descent.
You will understand this when I tell you that I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmal primordial atomic globule."
  -  WS Gilbert (The Mikado)


Offline cuffie81

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,028
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 03 November 21 21:31 GMT (UK) »
As per my previous post, I think Claud died in Kent.

Claud/e Evan Giles

Possible GRO BMD references:
1905 Q3 Birth - Claud Evan Giles (mmn: Craxford); Holborn; 01B; 654    
1929 Q4 Marriage - Claud Evan Giles & Ellen E Clements; Holborn; 1b; 111
1981 Q1 Death - Claude Evan Giles; 03 Aug 1905; Thanet; 16; 1935

If you search for Claud in 1939, he looks to be in Kent. But Ellen isn't with him.
Anderson Banks Beard Brewer Caves Clarke Clinch Cooling Cuff Denton Gamble Gibson Gunn Hunt Mills Muncey Norris Notzke Reid Robinson Searle Smith Trundle Turner Weedon Wells Wilson

Offline Newfloridian

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,093
  • MENE INTUS ET IN CUTE NOVISTI
    • View Profile
Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #32 on: Friday 05 November 21 18:20 GMT (UK) »
I now have some details about the children of these relationships. Both Gladys (October 16th 1903) and Claud Evan (August 3rd 1905) were born in the City of London Lying In Hospital. Both were registered with their father as Alfred Edward Giles and mother's maiden name was Craxford.
In 1903 Alice was living in Goddings Road off the Caledonian Road; and in 1905 in The Cottage, Citizen Road, Holloway.

Almost at the same time, Zillah Jane Hoare had a daughter, Ethel Zillah, registered as Giles, in Q4 1905 (birth certificate requested).

I'm just wondering how much obfuscation is going on here? Who was living with who? And why would Alice have given her son Claud another man's not particularly common name as a second given name (Evan)?

Alan
Leicester / Northampton: Craxford,  Claypole, Pridmore, Pollard, Tansley, Crane, Tilley
Derby: Naylor, Ball, Haywood
Buckinghamshire: Cook
London: Craxford, Lane Crauford
Tyneside: Nessworthy, Simpson
______________________________________
"I am, in point of fact, a particularly haughty and exclusive person, of pre-Adamite ancestral descent.
You will understand this when I tell you that I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmal primordial atomic globule."
  -  WS Gilbert (The Mikado)

Offline cuffie81

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,028
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday 09 November 21 23:23 GMT (UK) »
The birth of Claud Evan Giles and Ethel Zillah Giles (daughter of Zillah) around the same time, and Alfred being named as father of Claud, does seem a bit odd.

My feeling is that Evan Williams is the likely father of Claude. If he was, it begs the question why Alice would have named Alfred as the father on the birth cert. Maybe it was just as simple as Alice 'keeping up appearances', as she was still married to Alfred.

If Alfred really was the father of Claud, where does the name Claud Evan come from? I haven't come across any Claudes or Evans in Alfred's or Alice's families.

And Claude himself seemed a bit confused as to his father's name, based on his marriage record.


I have had a search of the newspapers to see if I could find anything that might add some clues but no joy I'm afraid. I did come across a curious story about Claude's mother-in-law though.

The People
16 Apr 1939
page 5
Bettors Spied By Binoculars
- Police sergeant and a constable stationed on roof of a building
- saw  man inside a house taking betting slips.
- there was a raid, and George Bates, 30,
- of Mitchell-st, was arrested
- that was the story that was told at Old-st police court yesterday,
- when Bates was fined £15,
- for using a house in Leage-st, Finsbury,
- for the purpose of betting
- Mrs Ellen Clements, 62, was bound over
- on a charge of permitting him to use the premises
- it was stated that the front door of the house
- had been rendered almost impregnable
...
Anderson Banks Beard Brewer Caves Clarke Clinch Cooling Cuff Denton Gamble Gibson Gunn Hunt Mills Muncey Norris Notzke Reid Robinson Searle Smith Trundle Turner Weedon Wells Wilson

Offline Newfloridian

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,093
  • MENE INTUS ET IN CUTE NOVISTI
    • View Profile
Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #34 on: Thursday 11 November 21 13:42 GMT (UK) »
CONFIRMED:

Alice Evangeline Giles (father William Craxford - deceased) married Evan Williams at Islington Register Office on February 13th 1912. It was witnessed by her oldest son, Albert Edward Richard and oldest daughter Alice Lydia.  Alice declared herself to be a widow.

They were both living at 61, Brewery Road at the time. This then also confirmed that this was a very short lived marriage as Evan died at work on June 18th 1912. The inquest quoted the same residential address although Alice was not mentioned.

Clarification now sought for the 1914 marriage to Charles Burrows. It this is the cane then the likely candidates for Alice's death are 1951 and 1953.

Not wanting to obfuscate this topic any further I did have a passing fancy as to where son Claud's middle name Evan came from. Although by far the most likely scenario was that it was a nod to Evan Williams being his father, I did wonder whether it might be a shortened pet name from Evangeline. I have looked up a number of sources but haven't found that to be a suggestion.

Cheers Alan
Leicester / Northampton: Craxford,  Claypole, Pridmore, Pollard, Tansley, Crane, Tilley
Derby: Naylor, Ball, Haywood
Buckinghamshire: Cook
London: Craxford, Lane Crauford
Tyneside: Nessworthy, Simpson
______________________________________
"I am, in point of fact, a particularly haughty and exclusive person, of pre-Adamite ancestral descent.
You will understand this when I tell you that I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmal primordial atomic globule."
  -  WS Gilbert (The Mikado)

Offline cuffie81

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,028
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #35 on: Thursday 11 November 21 18:11 GMT (UK) »
That's good to know, Alan. I'm slightly relieved I didn't send you off on a wild goose chase.

Clarification now sought for the 1914 marriage to Charles Burrows. If this is the case then the likely candidates for Alice's death are 1951 and 1953.

What are the deaths you're looking at in 1951 and 1953? I did have a look for deaths of Alice but none stood out to me, and I started toying with the idea that she may have re-married.

Tracing Alice's children, Alice Lydia, Gladys and Claude, Alice wasn't a witness at any of their marriages and I couldn't find Alice with any of them on electoral registers either (although there are some gaps in years that I couldn't fill).

Did you have any possible references for Alice after 1933 (assuming she did marry Charles Burrows)?
Anderson Banks Beard Brewer Caves Clarke Clinch Cooling Cuff Denton Gamble Gibson Gunn Hunt Mills Muncey Norris Notzke Reid Robinson Searle Smith Trundle Turner Weedon Wells Wilson