Author Topic: A marriage in Islington 1912  (Read 2633 times)

Offline Newfloridian

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Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 02 November 21 11:27 GMT (UK) »
Does that 1913 death certificate give an address for A Williams

Yes, 83 Queensland Road, Islington
Leicester / Northampton: Craxford,  Claypole, Pridmore, Pollard, Tansley, Crane, Tilley
Derby: Naylor, Ball, Haywood
Buckinghamshire: Cook
London: Craxford, Lane Crauford
Tyneside: Nessworthy, Simpson
______________________________________
"I am, in point of fact, a particularly haughty and exclusive person, of pre-Adamite ancestral descent.
You will understand this when I tell you that I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmal primordial atomic globule."
  -  WS Gilbert (The Mikado)

Offline Newfloridian

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Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 02 November 21 11:46 GMT (UK) »
Aliceís baptism shows that her birthdate was 3 October 1866. Have you tried filtering the 1939 Alice Williams by precise birthdate? Of course she may not have survived to 1939.

I'm not sure you can search the 1939 Register with the exact birthdate (using FindMyPast at least). In any event, quoted birthdates there are notoriously inaccurate when you see the full entry, at least in my experience.

Alan
Leicester / Northampton: Craxford,  Claypole, Pridmore, Pollard, Tansley, Crane, Tilley
Derby: Naylor, Ball, Haywood
Buckinghamshire: Cook
London: Craxford, Lane Crauford
Tyneside: Nessworthy, Simpson
______________________________________
"I am, in point of fact, a particularly haughty and exclusive person, of pre-Adamite ancestral descent.
You will understand this when I tell you that I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmal primordial atomic globule."
  -  WS Gilbert (The Mikado)

Offline avm228

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Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 02 November 21 11:51 GMT (UK) »
You can search the 1939 Register by exact birthdate, and that is one of the features that makes it so useful. The birthday (day/month) seems to slip less frequently than the birth year.

Anyway Iím not seeing her unfortunately. I also canít see a death of an Alice Evangeline Williams on the GRO website between 1913-1957, other than a 17 yr old (in Stockport, 1914) who isnít yours.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline rosie99

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Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 02 November 21 12:50 GMT (UK) »
Does that 1913 death certificate give an address for A Williams

Yes, 83 Queensland Road, Islington

Thank you.  In multiple occupation in 1911 so no leads there
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline rosie99

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Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 02 November 21 13:17 GMT (UK) »
1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWGV-K82

GILES, ETHEL  EDITH     mmn CRAXFORD 
GRO Reference: 1893  J Quarter in WEST HAM  Volume 04A  Page 247

GILES, WINIFRED  EMILY     mmn CRAXFORD 
GRO Reference: 1894  D Quarter in WEST HAM  Volume 04A  Page 282

GILES, STANLEY  LAWRENCE     mmn CRAXFORD 
GRO Reference: 1896  S Quarter in WEST HAM  Volume 04A  Page 179

GILES, GLADYS  BEATRICE     mmn CRAXFORD 
GRO Reference: 1899  D Quarter in HOLBORN  Volume 01B  Page 730

GILES, GLADYS       mmn CRAXFORD 
GRO Reference: 1903  D Quarter in HOLBORN  Volume 01B  Page 676
 
GILES, CLAUD  EVAN     mmn CRAXFORD 
GRO Reference: 1905  S Quarter in HOLBORN  Volume 01B  Page 654

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline rosie99

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Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 02 November 21 13:19 GMT (UK) »
Deceased online has
Giles ,  Gladys Beatrice
burial 02 December 1901
location Islington
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline rosie99

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Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 02 November 21 13:35 GMT (UK) »
GILES, ETHEL  EDITH     mmn CRAXFORD 
GRO Reference: 1893  J Quarter in WEST HAM  Volume 04A  Page 247
Death Sep qtr 1893  
Giles    Ethel Edith    0    W. Ham    4a   138


GILES, WINIFRED  EMILY     mmn CRAXFORD 
GRO Reference: 1894  D Quarter in WEST HAM  Volume 04A  Page 282
Death Dec qtr 1894 
Giles    Winifred Emily    0    W. Ham    4a   124   

GILES, STANLEY  LAWRENCE     mmn CRAXFORD 
GRO Reference: 1896  S Quarter in WEST HAM  Volume 04A  Page 179
Death Sep qtr 1896 
Giles    Stanley Lawrence    0    W. Ham    4a   108

GILES, GLADYS  BEATRICE     mmn CRAXFORD 
GRO Reference: 1899  D Quarter in HOLBORN  Volume 01B  Page 730
Death Dec qtr 1901  
Giles    Gladys Beatrice     age 1    Islington    1b   182

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Newfloridian

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Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 02 November 21 13:55 GMT (UK) »
Hi Rosie

Yes, I've just been checking up on those other births (Giles mmn Craxford) and deaths. Seems that Alice had eight children in total and that she had taken up with Evan Williams by 1902. I would suspect that the 1912 marriage is between this Evan and Alice. The marriage certificate would prove that.

Question remains: where did her husband Alfred Edward Giles go? I've accumulated a number of bigamous relationships along the way and it isn't always as simple as it seems. Divorce was very expensive and very difficult to obtain. It also seems that if the couple had been split for ten years - and they could claim that they had no idea where their ex-partner was or even still alive, then the subsequent marriage could well be considered not bigamous. The ten year gap between the 1901 census and the 1912 marriage could well justify that.

As an aside, I have to admit that following Alice Angeline was initially only a side issue from that of her brother William James Craxford, a blind organist in Lincolnshire who died young and his four children ended up in the London Infant Orphan Asylum.

Cheers Alan
 
Leicester / Northampton: Craxford,  Claypole, Pridmore, Pollard, Tansley, Crane, Tilley
Derby: Naylor, Ball, Haywood
Buckinghamshire: Cook
London: Craxford, Lane Crauford
Tyneside: Nessworthy, Simpson
______________________________________
"I am, in point of fact, a particularly haughty and exclusive person, of pre-Adamite ancestral descent.
You will understand this when I tell you that I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmal primordial atomic globule."
  -  WS Gilbert (The Mikado)

Offline cuffie81

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Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 02 November 21 14:26 GMT (UK) »
Question remains: where did her husband Alfred Edward Giles go? I've accumulated a number of bigamous relationships along the way and it isn't always as simple as it seems. Divorce was very expensive and very difficult to obtain. It also seems that if the couple had been split for ten years - and they could claim that they had no idea where their ex-partner was or even still alive, then the subsequent marriage could well be considered not bigamous. The ten year gap between the 1901 census and the 1912 marriage could well justify that.

Have you ruled out the man in this couple? They appear in a number of trees on Anc.

Alfred Edward Giles and Zillah Jane Hoare. There's no apparent marriage for the couple but they appear to have had 7 children between 1905 and 1919.


1949 Q4 Death - Alfred Edward Giles; age 83 (born c1866); Battersea; 05C; 83
1953 Q3 Death - Zillah Jane Giles; age 77 (born c1876); Wandsworth; 05D; 530

1905 Q4 Birth - Ethel Zillah Giles (mmn: Hoare); Lambeth; 01D; 419
1908 Q1 Birth - Mabel Doris Giles (mmn: Hoare); Lambeth; 01D; 371
1910 Q2 Birth - Dorothy Winifred Giles (mmn: Hoare); Lambeth; 01D; 392
1912 Q3 Birth - Margaret Emily Giles (mmn: Hoare); Lambeth; 01D; 725
1914 Q4 Birth - Zillah Edith Giles (mmn: Hoare); Wandsworth; 01D; 1189
1916 Q1 Birth - Sydney Lawrence Giles (mmn: Hoare); Wandsworth; 01D; 1179
1919 Q2 Birth - Phyllis Alice Giles (mmn: Hoare); Wandsworth; 01D; 812

1911 Lambeth
Alfred & Zillah
+3 children
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW5S-LF4



Zillah and family in earlier years:

1861 Q3 Birth - Francis Lewis Hoare (mmn: Waring); Woodstock; 03A; 556
1863 Q2 Birth - Agnes Eliza Ann Hoare (mmn: Waring); Woodstock; 03A; 585
1867 Q4 Birth - Elizabeth Mary Hoare (mmn: Waring); Woodstock; 03A; 608
1869 Q1 Birth - Albert Job Hoare (mmn: Waring); Chipping Norton; 03A; 735
1870 Q3 Birth - George Hoare (mmn: Waring); Chipping Norton; 03A; 679
1874 Q2 Birth - Ralph Eric Hoare (mmn: Waring); Chipping Norton; 03A; 722
1875 Q4 Birth - Zillah Jane Hoare (mmn: Waring); Chipping Norton; 03A; 711
1879 Q3 Birth - Mabel Edith Hoare (mmn: Waring); Chipping Norton; 03A; 764
1880 Q4 Birth - Emily Miriam Hoare (mmn: Waring); Chipping Norton; 03A; 758
1883 Q3 Birth - Hubert Hoare (mmn: Waring); Chipping Norton; 03A; 808
1883 Q3 Birth - Rose Hoare (mmn: Waring); Chipping Norton; 03A; 808

1898 Q1 Birth - Evelyn Mabel Shaper (mmn: Hoare); Pancras; 01B; 149
1900 Q2 Birth - Frederick Shaper (mmn: Hoare); Lambeth; 01D; 462


1881 Chipping Norton
Zillah
with parents Lewis and Mary
+siblings
Ref RG11; Piece 1520; Folio 48; Page 23; Schedule 666
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27H-145J

1891 Clerkenwell, Holborn
Possibly Zillah (birth place differs)
Servant in Whitehill household
Ref RG12; Piece 229; Folio 50; Page 48; Schedule 351
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:3RB1-43Z

1901 Clapham, Wandsworth
Zillah
with married sister Bessie (Elizabeth Mary?) and her husband Frederick Shaper
Ref RG13; Piece 464; Folio 140; Page 25; Schedule 154
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9CC-387


EDIT: Corrected number of children (6 => 7) for Alfred and Zilliah
Anderson Banks Beard Brewer Caves Clarke Clinch Cooling Cuff Denton Gamble Gibson Gunn Hunt Mills Muncey Norris Notzke Reid Robinson Searle Smith Trundle Turner Weedon Wells Wilson