Author Topic: A marriage in Islington 1912  (Read 2594 times)

Offline Newfloridian

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Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 02 November 21 14:41 GMT (UK) »
Hi Cuffie

Many thanks

I think you have given me the "clincher" there that Alfred Giles was still alive in 1911 - and that's because of his occupation. He has been a hatter or hat salesman throughout. He decalred in the census that they had been married for 7 years and had three children.

Assuming that Alice's marriage in 1912 is correct and that there in no marriage for Alfred and Zilpah, my inclination would be to say that Alice's relationship was bigamous but Alfred's wasn't. I'll take expert advice on that one.

Alan
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 02 November 21 22:22 GMT (UK) »
Hi Alan

From here https://craxford-family.co.uk/getperson.php?personID=I6407&tree=Craxford1  Alfred Edward Giles's death is given as being in Battersea in 1949. This one?

GILES, ALFRED  EDWARD - age 83 
GRO Reference: 1949  D Quarter in BATTERSEA  Volume 05C  Page 83

Death likely I would think. He was in Wandsworth in 1939 with his second family. Do you have a birth date for him to compare with?

A death in 1936 in Wandsworth is given for Alice in the link above but this is for an Alice Eliza Giles which, from what you have, would not be correct.

Monica

Added: cuffie81, sorry! You had the likely death for Alfred Giles already on a previous post  ::)
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline cuffie81

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Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 02 November 21 23:36 GMT (UK) »
No worries, Monica. That's a nice tree you've found there, just a shame it doesn't provide any more info about Alice's death.

I have a somewhat loose idea of what may happened to Alice, although I can't find enough records to be sure either way; so feel free to shoot it down. I think Evan Williams may have died in 1912 and Alice remarried to a Charles William Burrows in 1914.


Evan Williams

Looking for Evan Williams' in the London area, born c1863 (as per 1911 census), we have the following deaths. I think I can account for most of these deaths and can rule them out but the 1912 death sticks out.

Possible GRO BMD references:
1912 Q2 Death - Evan Williams; age 50 (born c1862); Islington; 01B; 284
1925 Q1 Death - Evan William Williams; age 63 (born c1862); Croydon; 02A; 461
1926 Q1 Death - Evan Williams; age 65 (born c1861); Islington; 01B; 191
1933 Q4 Death - Evan Williams; age 68 (born c1865); Willesden; 03A; 348
1945 Q3 Death - Evan Williams; age 84 (born c1861); Wandsworth; 01D; 270

On the 1901 census, the Evan we're looking for looks to be in Islington and is a carman, which might tally with the newspaper item below.

1901 Campbell Road, Islington
Evan Williams, boarder, born c1865, carman
Ref RG13; Piece 168; Folio 126; Page 28; Schedule 197
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9Z7-BFJ

Islington Gazette
24 Jun 1912
page 5, column 6
Died At His Work
- inquest held at Islington into death of
- Evan Williams,
- aged 50,
- labourer,
- of 61 Brewery Road, Caledonian Road.
- widow stated on Tuesday morning,
- he went out to his work
- and returned home for breakfast,
- when he was as usual.
- he went out again to work,
- and later on she heard of his death
- deceased has told her three weeks ago that
- he came over faint whilst at the barber's.
- William Daniels,
- of 6 Marquess Road, horsekeeper,
- said on Tuesday morning he was in
- Capon's Yard, 2 Brandon Road, Cattle Market,
- when he saw deceased on top of a load of straw.
- he [Williams] asked Daniels to assist him to tie the load down,
- and he did so.
- deceased, on getting down, complained he had come over queer,
- and Daniels noticed he was gasping for breath.
- he [Williams] went down on his knees,
- rolled over onto his back, became unconscious,
- and died ten minutes afterwards
...
- a post-mortem had been performed,
- and found death due to the rupture of an
- aneurism of the aorta
- verdict in accordance with medical evidence


Burial
name: Evan Williams
buried: 24 Jun 1912; Islington
https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch?DetsView=Summary&src=ext&fileid=1184651


Map: Campbell Road, Islington (1914; now Whadcoat Street)
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=51.56403&lon=-0.11077&layers=168&b=7
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.56305/-0.10836

Campbell Road (N4) renamed Whadcoat Street
https://maps.thehunthouse.com/Streets/Old_to_New_London_Street_Name_Changes.htm

Map: Brewery Road, Islington, adjoining Caledonian Road
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/51.54404/-0.12235


EDIT: Added clarification of the birth year of Evan Williams we're looking for.
Anderson Banks Beard Brewer Caves Clarke Clinch Cooling Cuff Denton Gamble Gibson Gunn Hunt Mills Muncey Norris Notzke Reid Robinson Searle Smith Trundle Turner Weedon Wells Wilson

Offline cuffie81

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Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 02 November 21 23:37 GMT (UK) »
Charles William Burrows & Alice E Williams

Possible GRO BMD references:
1914 Q4 Marriage - Charles William Burrows & Alice E Williams; Islington; 1b; 761

1933 Q1 Death - Charles William Burrows; age 68 (born c1865); Finsbury; 01B; 798
1942 Q1 Death - Charles W Burrows; age 59 (born c1883); Battersea; 01D; 423
1952 Q1 Death - Charles William Burrows; age 74 (born c1878); Islington; 05C; 1006
1955 Q2 Death - Charles William Burrows; age 72 (born c1883); Hammersmith; 05C; 669

There are a number of Charles Burrows in London around this time but the 1933 death does seem to tie in with the following electoral registers.

Electoral registers:
1926-1928 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington
- Alice Burrows, Charles William Burrows,
- Bridget Gilder, John Joseph Henry Gilder,
- Emily Lloyd, Michael Lloyd

1930 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington
- Alice Burrows, Charles William Burrows,
- Claude Evan Giles, Ellen Elizabeth Giles,
- Emily Lloyd, Michael Lloyd,
- Horace Frederick Trott, Minnie Florence Trott
                                    
1932 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington
- Alice Burrows, Charles William Burrows,
- Winifred Mary Bond,
- Catherine Lloyd, Emily Lloyd, Michael Lloyd,
- Horace Frederick Trott, Minnie Florence Trott


Alice Burrows & Charles William Burrows no longer at Ironmonger Street in 1933.

Note Claude and Ellen Giles at the same address in 1930 (see below for more info on Claude).


Likely burials for the death registrations:

Burial
name: Charles William Burrows
buried: 14 Jan 1933; Islington
https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch?DetsView=Summary&src=ext&fileid=1261033

Burial
name: Charles William Burrows
buried: 17 Jan 1952; Islington
https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch?DetsView=Summary&src=ext&fileid=1331716
Anderson Banks Beard Brewer Caves Clarke Clinch Cooling Cuff Denton Gamble Gibson Gunn Hunt Mills Muncey Norris Notzke Reid Robinson Searle Smith Trundle Turner Weedon Wells Wilson


Offline cuffie81

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Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 02 November 21 23:38 GMT (UK) »
Claud/e Evan Giles

Likely son of Alice.

Possible GRO BMD references:
1905 Q3 Birth - Claud Evan Giles (mmn: Craxford); Holborn; 01B; 654    
1929 Q4 Marriage - Claud Evan Giles & Ellen E Clements; Holborn; 1b; 111
1981 Q1 Death - Claude Evan Giles; 03 Aug 1905; Thanet; 16; 1935

Marriage
married: 25 Dec 1929; St Paul, Clerkenwell; banns
groom: Claud Evan Giles; 24; bach; News agent; 7 Leage? Street
bride: Ellen Elizabeth Clements; 24; spin; -; 7 Leage? Street
grooms father: Claud Evan Giles (dec); shop assistant
brides father: Ernest Bertram Clements; fitter?
witnesses: Ernest Bertram Clements, Katherine Julia Clements

There's an obvious discrepancy here, of the groom's father, named as Claud Evan Giles. However, I can't see any other births for a Claud/e Evan Giles of this age.


Electoral registers:
1930 - 10 Ironmonger Street, Islington
[See record for Alice and Charles Burrows]

1931 - 7 Leage Street, Islington         
- Ellen Clements, Ernest Bertram Clements, Kathleen Julia Clements,
- Claude Giles, Ellen Elizabeth Giles
+others
                                          
1932 - 7 Leage Street, Islington         
- Ellen Clements, Ernest Bertram Clements, Kathleen Julia Clements,
- Claude Giles, Ellen Elizabeth Giles
+others
                                    
1933 - 7 Leage Street, Islington         
- Ellen Clements, Kathleen Julia Clements,
- Claude Giles, Ellen Elizabeth Giles
+others
                                    
1934 - 7 Leage Street, Islington         
- Ellen Clements, Kathleen Julia Clements,
- Ellen Elizabeth Giles
+others
                                    
1935 - 7 Leage Street, Islington         
- Ellen Clements, Kathleen Julia Clements,
- Ellen Elizabeth Giles
+others
                                    
1936 - 7 Leage Street, Islington         
- Ellen Clements, Kathleen Julia Clements,
- Ellen Elizabeth Giles
+others

1938 - 15 King Square, Islington         
- Claude Giles, Ellen Elizabeth Giles,
+others


Map: Ironmonger Street & Leage Street, Islington
https://maps.nls.uk/view/103030824#zoom=5&lat=5199&lon=3393&layers=BT


Map: Area surrounded by Old Street, Bath Street and Lever Street, where Ironmonger Street & Leage Street were
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/51.52574/-0.09263
Anderson Banks Beard Brewer Caves Clarke Clinch Cooling Cuff Denton Gamble Gibson Gunn Hunt Mills Muncey Norris Notzke Reid Robinson Searle Smith Trundle Turner Weedon Wells Wilson

Offline Lily M

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Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 03 November 21 07:44 GMT (UK) »
This must be Alice and Evan in 1911, showing that Evan was born c.1863

Baldwin Street, St.Lukes   Married 12 years
Evan Williams   48
Alice Williams    44
Gladys Williams    7
Claud Evan Williams    5

Thereís an Alice E. in 1939 born 03/10/1866 but her surname is Childs.

Offline cuffie81

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Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 03 November 21 08:05 GMT (UK) »
This must be Alice and Evan in 1911, showing that Evan was born c.1863

Lily, Rosie had already located the 1911 census record for Evan, Alice and the children.

1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWGV-K82
Anderson Banks Beard Brewer Caves Clarke Clinch Cooling Cuff Denton Gamble Gibson Gunn Hunt Mills Muncey Norris Notzke Reid Robinson Searle Smith Trundle Turner Weedon Wells Wilson

Offline Lily M

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Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 03 November 21 08:12 GMT (UK) »
Sorry Rosie.  I read through, but didnít see that!

Offline Newfloridian

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Re: A marriage in Islington 1912
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 03 November 21 08:27 GMT (UK) »
Hi Cuffie

Thanks once again. Food (nay a veritable banquet) for thought there.

I've sent you a PM

Alan
Leicester / Northampton: Craxford,  Claypole, Pridmore, Pollard, Tansley, Crane, Tilley
Derby: Naylor, Ball, Haywood
Buckinghamshire: Cook
London: Craxford, Lane Crauford
Tyneside: Nessworthy, Simpson
______________________________________
"I am, in point of fact, a particularly haughty and exclusive person, of pre-Adamite ancestral descent.
You will understand this when I tell you that I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmal primordial atomic globule."
  -  WS Gilbert (The Mikado)