Author Topic: Is this Lily's mum?  (Read 594 times)

Offline TerriG

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Is this Lily's mum?
« on: Monday 01 November 21 14:32 GMT (UK) »
Hi all.

This is an ongoing mystery, as detailed in my previous post:-
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=648730.54

I am trying to rule out Mary Ellen Boswell #3 in the above post, as being the mother of my Great Auntie Lily who was adopted by Walter & Mary Lyon as a baby in 1904.

I attach the 2nd page of a letter sent by Lily's mother (who refers to herself as E Boswell) to the Lyons when Lily was 2 months old, in June 1904.  I also attach a snippet of a marriage certificate showing Mary Ellen Boswell's signature.  The marriage was actually in 1900, so it's not likely to be the right Mary Ellen, but I'm not ruling anything out, especially as the groom (George Henry Ball died later in 1904).

I hope this makes sense!
Thanks for reading.
McLeod, McKean, Hepburn (Fife)
McGowan, Gowan (Dumfriesshire, Ireland)
Nelson, McKean (Lanarkshire)
McKean, Mulgrew (Lethbridge, Alberta)
Boswell, Plumb, Lyon, Stokes, Pemberton, Crawford, Threadgold (Cheshire)
Tierney (Scotland/Ireland)

Offline IgorStrav

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Re: Is this Lily's mum?
« Reply #1 on: Monday 01 November 21 15:23 GMT (UK) »
Not a handwriting expert, but for what it's worth

The wedding certificate signature is very upright, and the handwriting on the letter has a distinct rightward lean, so I would say they're not by the same person.

In addition, the wedding certificate signature has the first letters of the surname not quite joined, though the learned joining strokes are present.  The letter signature is much more flowing, and the join from the "o" to the next letter is in a different place.

Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Nord Brabant/Belgium/East London.
Kesneer Belgium/East London
Burton, East London.
Barlow, East London
Wayling, East London
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.
Thorpe, Brightlingsea, Essex

Offline TerriG

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Re: Is this Lily's mum?
« Reply #2 on: Monday 01 November 21 16:10 GMT (UK) »
 Thank you very much for your input - we'll see what other people think.
McLeod, McKean, Hepburn (Fife)
McGowan, Gowan (Dumfriesshire, Ireland)
Nelson, McKean (Lanarkshire)
McKean, Mulgrew (Lethbridge, Alberta)
Boswell, Plumb, Lyon, Stokes, Pemberton, Crawford, Threadgold (Cheshire)
Tierney (Scotland/Ireland)


Online Treetotal

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Re: Is this Lily's mum?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 01 November 21 18:03 GMT (UK) »
I would say no for the same observations as Igor.
Carol
CAPES Hull. KIRK  Leeds, Hull. JONES  Wales,  Lancashire. CARROLL Ireland, Lancashire, U.S.A. BROUGHTON Leicester, Goole, Hull BORRILL  Lincolnshire, Durham, Hull. GROOM  Wishbech, Hull. ANTHONY St. John's Nfld. BUCKNALL Lincolnshire, Hull. BUTT Harbour Grace, Newfoundland. PARSONS  Western Bay, Newfoundland. MONAGHAN  Ireland, U.S.A. PERRY Cheshire, Liverpool.
 
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Offline Gadget

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Re: Is this Lily's mum?
« Reply #4 on: Monday 01 November 21 19:02 GMT (UK) »
I'm on a laptop and found it difficult to compare so I've done snips of the relevant parts.

I don't think they're the same hand.
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

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Offline Zefiro

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Re: Is this Lily's mum?
« Reply #5 on: Monday 01 November 21 19:13 GMT (UK) »
In the letter we see a writer with a confident, fluent way of writing: regular spacing, horizontally as well as vertically. This is from a person that is used to holding a pen and writing something down.
(by the way, did anyone else notice the alignment of the text? It seems to be centered, becoming more narrow towards the end of the letter)

Both of the signatures on the wedding certificate however are from persons that are less familiar with writing ( although the bride's signature is not that bad). Her signature is composed of individual letters, in contrast to the fluently written signature on the letter.

Although it could be due to the nerves, or an unruly pen, or even young age, I don't think the same person signed these 2 documents.

Offline TerriG

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Re: Is this Lily's mum?
« Reply #6 on: Monday 01 November 21 19:55 GMT (UK) »
Thank you all for spending time on this and for your opinions.  It's great to be able to fairly confidently eliminate one of the 'candidates' for Lily's mother.  The search goes on, and if I find any more signatures to compare, I will post them here.

By the way, if anyone is doing a bit of sleuthing on this topic, I have looked at the Mary Ellen Ball/John Webley marriage certificate and, strangely, she doesn't sign on that occasion!
McLeod, McKean, Hepburn (Fife)
McGowan, Gowan (Dumfriesshire, Ireland)
Nelson, McKean (Lanarkshire)
McKean, Mulgrew (Lethbridge, Alberta)
Boswell, Plumb, Lyon, Stokes, Pemberton, Crawford, Threadgold (Cheshire)
Tierney (Scotland/Ireland)

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Is this Lily's mum?
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 02 November 21 09:04 GMT (UK) »
factor in mood fluctuations
mine changes
which mean  within a month i could have 3 different syles

 handwriting experts could probably tell if i was high stable or low at time of writing  9actally this also shows in my typing ...those who know me on here have seen typos and odd sentences when too much going on )

your own handwriting will change over years 

this baby mother was obviously emotional and it must have been a hard letter to write that she needed to word carefully

hoefully at her wedding she was happy and confident ..

id be interested to see what the experts think when they join debate

i
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline TerriG

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Re: Is this Lily's mum?
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 03 November 21 17:23 GMT (UK) »
Hello again!
I've found another signature.  This time it is of Mary Ellen Boswell #2 (from the related topic).  She was a witness at her sister Teresa's wedding in 1906, so only 2 years after the letter was written.
Would you be kind enough to compare this signature to the writing in the letter?
Many thanks.
McLeod, McKean, Hepburn (Fife)
McGowan, Gowan (Dumfriesshire, Ireland)
Nelson, McKean (Lanarkshire)
McKean, Mulgrew (Lethbridge, Alberta)
Boswell, Plumb, Lyon, Stokes, Pemberton, Crawford, Threadgold (Cheshire)
Tierney (Scotland/Ireland)