Author Topic: Last two lines of a French marriage 1767  (Read 552 times)

Offline Zefiro

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 94
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Last two lines of a French marriage 1767
« Reply #9 on: Friday 05 November 21 21:12 GMT (UK) »
The text to be inserted where # was written in the document is as already  found by jayaygee. I'm not convinced the name of the vicaire is as suggested, but I can't offer anything better.
#vu aussi le certificat de monsieur
?telard vicaire de la paroisse de Saint Gervais de Paris en date de six des dits mois
et an, approuvé le renvoy

Offline goldie61

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,650
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Last two lines of a French marriage 1767
« Reply #10 on: Friday 05 November 21 22:47 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Zefiro.
Any ideas about a 'renonciation'?
or how I go about getting hold of it?
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline jayaygee

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 232
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Last two lines of a French marriage 1767
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 06 November 21 20:41 GMT (UK) »
I don’t think this is the document your mentioned but in case you haven’t seen it, it is informative.  It is a request for a permission to wed within a prohibited degree of kindred:

https://www.geneanet.org/archives/registres/view/18501/343

It gives you the ancestry of the parties showing how they are related :

-   Claude Philippe Bertolle
-   Son of Claude Bertolle
-   Son of Claude Barthélémy Bertolle and Madelaine Duvivier
-   Daughter of François Duvivier

-   Anne Giraudot
-   Daughter of Charles Giraudot and Marie Aimée (?) Duvivier
-   Daughter of François Duvivier
-   Son of François Duvivier

The petition was addressed to the ecclesiastical authorities in Paris and is held at the Archives Nationales. It is dated 28 juin 1735. Claude Philippe, a wigmaker, is aged 19 and has the consent of his father, Claude, drawn up by a notary in Montreuil sur Mer.

I haven’t yet been able to decipher all of it but Claude Philippe is living in the parish of St Eustache – the name of the street is given but so far I haven’t been able to make it out.
BDF Twigg, Ellingham, Gates
BKM Bilbey, Collins, Brandon, Norwood, Smith
HAM Holloway (Romsey area)
HRT Brooks (Tring area)
LDN Saunders, Beedle
MDX Saunders
MLN Maitland, Robertson, McGlashan(all Edinburgh)
OXF Morby, Cross, Gardner (all Banbury area)
SAL Jones, Mathews, Higginson, Davies, Gobourn, Blount
WAR Pritchard (Birmingham)
WRY Dickinson, Atkinson, Mellon, Pritchard, Ashforth, Helliwell, Hague, Dungworth (all Sheffield area)


Offline jayaygee

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 232
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Last two lines of a French marriage 1767
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 06 November 21 21:01 GMT (UK) »
The "renonciation" could well be the refusal of an inheritance which usually happened when the deceased left more debts than anything else.  Hopefully someone with more legal knowledge than me will be of more help.
BDF Twigg, Ellingham, Gates
BKM Bilbey, Collins, Brandon, Norwood, Smith
HAM Holloway (Romsey area)
HRT Brooks (Tring area)
LDN Saunders, Beedle
MDX Saunders
MLN Maitland, Robertson, McGlashan(all Edinburgh)
OXF Morby, Cross, Gardner (all Banbury area)
SAL Jones, Mathews, Higginson, Davies, Gobourn, Blount
WAR Pritchard (Birmingham)
WRY Dickinson, Atkinson, Mellon, Pritchard, Ashforth, Helliwell, Hague, Dungworth (all Sheffield area)

Offline goldie61

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,650
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Last two lines of a French marriage 1767
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 07 November 21 07:08 GMT (UK) »
Gosh, that's fantastic jayaygee!
I have been searching on geneanet, but didn't find this!
I did manage to get to it by clicking on your link.
This is my first foray into French records, so I'm obviously not very adept at it.
How did you find it?
I'm glad you have picked out the pertinent bits - I can see the table of relationships at the bottom of the first page - but that's about it!

I can't seem to download these images.
The download icon just doesn't do anything - perhaps I'm missing the right software or something?
Should I be able to download them?

I have to say I'm finding searching for Paris births, deaths and marriages quite challenging!
Are the records just not digitised, or are many of them missing for some reason? Do you know?

Thank you very much for all you interest and help with this.

I have found a record of a burial for a child of Claude Philippe Bertolle and Anne Giradot in 1748 in Maillebois, Centre Val de Loire, where their address is given as Rue Montmatre in the parish of St Eustace in Paris. Might this be the address given in this marriage application?
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline jayaygee

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 232
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Last two lines of a French marriage 1767
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 07 November 21 10:58 GMT (UK) »
I think I have access to a better search as I am a subscribed member of Geneanet which probably explains how I found it using "Claude Philippe Bertholle".  If I click on the image I get the option to save it - is it the same if you are using the English version?  If not, I'll try to send it to you.

Research in Paris is very difficult as a large number of records no longer survive pre-1860 were destroyed by fire.  If you look here:
https://fr.geneawiki.com/index.php/Au_del%C3%A0_de_l%27Etat-Civil_-_75_-_Registres_Paroissiaux
you can see what parish registers still exist.  I'm pretty sure the name of the street begins "rue de l'epo...." (could perhaps be "rue de la Poterie" but I'm not sure it was in the right parish) and isn't rue Montmartre.  I'll see if I can find a list of old Paris streets as much of that area has been redeveloped.
BDF Twigg, Ellingham, Gates
BKM Bilbey, Collins, Brandon, Norwood, Smith
HAM Holloway (Romsey area)
HRT Brooks (Tring area)
LDN Saunders, Beedle
MDX Saunders
MLN Maitland, Robertson, McGlashan(all Edinburgh)
OXF Morby, Cross, Gardner (all Banbury area)
SAL Jones, Mathews, Higginson, Davies, Gobourn, Blount
WAR Pritchard (Birmingham)
WRY Dickinson, Atkinson, Mellon, Pritchard, Ashforth, Helliwell, Hague, Dungworth (all Sheffield area)

Online manukarik

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 423
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Last two lines of a French marriage 1767
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 07 November 21 11:37 GMT (UK) »
I think I have access to a better search as I am a subscribed member of Geneanet which probably explains how I found it using "Claude Philippe Bertholle".  If I click on the image I get the option to save it - is it the same if you are using the English version?  If not, I'll try to send it to you.

Research in Paris is very difficult as a large number of records no longer survive pre-1860 were destroyed by fire.  If you look here:
https://fr.geneawiki.com/index.php/Au_del%C3%A0_de_l%27Etat-Civil_-_75_-_Registres_Paroissiaux
you can see what parish registers still exist.  I'm pretty sure the name of the street begins "rue de l'epo...." (could perhaps be "rue de la Poterie" but I'm not sure it was in the right parish) and isn't rue Montmartre.  I'll see if I can find a list of old Paris streets as much of that area has been redeveloped.

Is it perhaps rue de Poitiers, formerly rue Potier?

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rue_de_Poitiers
Clarkson, Tolladay, Prevost, Killick, Hicks

Offline jayaygee

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 232
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Last two lines of a French marriage 1767
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 07 November 21 16:03 GMT (UK) »
Unfortunately the rue de Poitiers isn't in the right area of Paris to be in St Eustache parish.  I think rue de la Poterie - which no longer exists - is more likely as it was in the Halles area too.
BDF Twigg, Ellingham, Gates
BKM Bilbey, Collins, Brandon, Norwood, Smith
HAM Holloway (Romsey area)
HRT Brooks (Tring area)
LDN Saunders, Beedle
MDX Saunders
MLN Maitland, Robertson, McGlashan(all Edinburgh)
OXF Morby, Cross, Gardner (all Banbury area)
SAL Jones, Mathews, Higginson, Davies, Gobourn, Blount
WAR Pritchard (Birmingham)
WRY Dickinson, Atkinson, Mellon, Pritchard, Ashforth, Helliwell, Hague, Dungworth (all Sheffield area)

Offline jayaygee

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 232
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Last two lines of a French marriage 1767
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 07 November 21 16:22 GMT (UK) »
You can find St Eustache church on this street map of 18th century Paris if you zoom in and go more or less due north from "PALAIS" on the Ile de la Cité.  South of the church to the right is the rue de la Potterie :

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b53085122h/f1.item.zoom
BDF Twigg, Ellingham, Gates
BKM Bilbey, Collins, Brandon, Norwood, Smith
HAM Holloway (Romsey area)
HRT Brooks (Tring area)
LDN Saunders, Beedle
MDX Saunders
MLN Maitland, Robertson, McGlashan(all Edinburgh)
OXF Morby, Cross, Gardner (all Banbury area)
SAL Jones, Mathews, Higginson, Davies, Gobourn, Blount
WAR Pritchard (Birmingham)
WRY Dickinson, Atkinson, Mellon, Pritchard, Ashforth, Helliwell, Hague, Dungworth (all Sheffield area)