Author Topic: Which William Sutton  (Read 1373 times)

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,636
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: Which William Sutton
« Reply #27 on: Friday 12 November 21 01:04 GMT (UK) »
Seems the fact that William from the Barwell was around in the 1822 muster rules out the shopkeeper who returned to England in 1818.

There are at least three William Suttons.
  • The convict who came out on the Neptune, Scarborough and Surprize, December 1789
  • The convict who came out on the Barwell in 1795
  • The shopkeeper who returned to England in 1819

.....

At least three .... ummm..... I think there were at least EIGHT by that name in NSW in the decade with Macquarie as Governor (1810-1821) .... as per NSW State Archives and the reliable index for the full set of the Col Sec papers....  1788-1825.
 https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/colonial-secretarys-papers   

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline NevilleTB

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 63
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Which William Sutton
« Reply #28 on: Friday 12 November 21 01:24 GMT (UK) »
I know there were a lot more than three but looking at when Sarah was here in 1801, I could only find three. There was another in Tasmania around that time but he seems to have stayed put for some time.

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,636
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: Which William Sutton
« Reply #29 on: Friday 12 November 21 02:02 GMT (UK) »
The family on the Porpoise to Sydney 1800-1 were surnamed SUTTOR, not SUTTON...   

From your opening post you are researching Sarah SUTTON, the lass who married James MURPHY in 1818 at Parramatta ...

From the Col Sec Papers,  have you accessed the actual images on the reels.  I am sure that there are some reels, and some parts of some reels that are not included in the offerings by the subscription commercial family history websites -

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.


Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,636
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: Which William Sutton
« Reply #30 on: Friday 12 November 21 02:29 GMT (UK) »
.....
1810 James and Sarah had a daughter Mary Ann Murphy born on 5 Dec 1810. She was christened on 28 Apr 1811. As she was born out of wedlock and was not registered. She still went by the name Sarah Wilks. ......

NSW BDM online index entry for Mary Ann's baptism is under the family name of WILKES:
1810, Volume 1A,  line 2396, Mary A, daughter of Sarah WILKES. 

You may need to check your REF info on several of your NSW ancestors in that era.  All the Early Church Records held by NSW BDM were indexed at NSW BDM  and include the capital letter V (as in volume) and the year and the line number (of that volume and year).   Volume 1A is C of E. 

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,636
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: Which William Sutton
« Reply #31 on: Friday 12 November 21 02:43 GMT (UK) »
Lachlan Macquarie was the Governor of NSW who set about bringing some order to the administration's paperwork system..    He was Scottish and a military chap (as opposed to a Royal Navy chap) and so he was familiar with the Scottish practice of females not needing to change their surname when marrying.   

You will find that female convicts and female free settlers alike in NSW in the 1810-1821 era were often referred to by the surname they landed with, rather than the surname of any spouse they may have married or formed a relationship with after their arrival.  Newspaper reports from that era sometimes overcame the apparent dilemma by writing up 'society' births as ... the lady of Joe Bloggs was delivered of a ... etc etc etc  and thus avoided using her own surname at all. 

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline NevilleTB

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 63
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Which William Sutton
« Reply #32 on: Friday 12 November 21 03:33 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the information. The daughter is good detective work. I missed that one. I think a lot of people who have done family trees were probably confused by the sutton/suttor name too.

At this stage of my family tree history, I am trying to track back to the first direct ancestor to arrive in Australia. So far I have documented about 30 couples e.g parents, grandparents, great grandparents etc. This is one of the messiest ones as there seems to be lots of information that cannot be corroborated. Thanks for your ongoing work, and also the information about interpreting the records. I am learning all the time. Twelve months ago I thought family trees on commercial sites were accurate. Less naive now.

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,636
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: Which William Sutton
« Reply #33 on: Friday 12 November 21 06:06 GMT (UK) »
Sydney Gazette Classified Advertising  14 November 1818 
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/2178348

A. BYRNE purchased a farm of 200 acres in the Upper Appin district  :) from Sarah WILKES, the daughter of Wm SUTTON.  Wm SUTTON had been granted the land by the Governor.  The farm is next to Delany's Farm.

ADD
St Johns C of E, Parramatta parish register includes the following baptisms. 
Mary Ann, daughter of James MURPHY and Sarah WILKES, born 5 December 1810, baptised 28 April 1811, by Rev Samuel Marsden.
Margarett, daughter of James MURPHY and Sarah WILKES, born 26 February 1813, baptised 28 March 1813, by Rev Samuel Marsden.  (JM notes the ‘double tt’ in Margaret. )
Susannah, daughter of James MURPHEY and Sarah WILKS, born 8 February 1816, baptised 14 December 1817, by Rev Samuel Marsden.  (JM notes the unusual spelling of Murphey, and the dropped ‘e’ in Wilks.)
Catherine, daughter of James and Sarah MURPHEY of Parramatta, born 15 September 1819, baptised 10 September by Rev Joseph KENYON, P.C.

JM
   
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline NevilleTB

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 63
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Which William Sutton
« Reply #34 on: Friday 12 November 21 06:49 GMT (UK) »
I had the details from Parramatta in the posts on Sarah. The information on the land sale seems to be a key to what happened to Dad.

Offline maddys52

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,892
  • Gran
    • View Profile
Re: Which William Sutton
« Reply #35 on: Friday 12 November 21 09:20 GMT (UK) »
Yes, this is the same advertisement that I noted in reply #5 (though on 7 Nov 1818). I think it reasonable to draw the conclusion that the land was given to the William SUTTON who returned to England earlier that year, hence "late of Sydney".