Author Topic: French marriage to decipher  (Read 199 times)

Offline goldie61

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French marriage to decipher
« on: Wednesday 10 November 21 08:47 GMT (UK) »

Another marriage from the Montreuil registers, where they obviously had good strong ink! I have lightened this to try and get rid of some of the bleed through, so I hope it's more readable.

I have made out:
Le vingt cinq May mil sept cent vingt trois ?    le consentement
de M le Curez de notre dame jay soussigné mari solemnellment
charle du Breuil de la paroisse de notre dame  ?  Francoise
Antoinette Rabattez de cette paroisse en presente Jacque Le
Roy oncle du du Breuil  ?   ?  Marie Margaret Le
Roy, de Catherine       ?          ?             Marian de claude Bertel
p       ?      marie Marguerite Rabattez   ?      de Jeanne
Catherine Rabattez et de Jean baptiste dolberd  lesquels ont signé avec
nous except charle du Breuil qui a fait sa marque de la


Any help to complete it would be appreciated.
I'm particularly interested in what it says after Claude Bertel's name.
He had married Marie Rabatez 9 years before this, and I think Francoise Antoinette Rabatez was her sister.

Many thanks
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline Zefiro

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Re: French marriage to decipher
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 10 November 21 20:48 GMT (UK) »
You seem to have a nose for those ink stained family documents ;D
I'm not sure of some names, and it seems there's not always that extra bit of information following the names of the witnesses. Can i ask you to post the section with the signatures. That could confirm some of the names (or offer a chance to correct them).

Le vingt cinq May mil sept cent vingt trois vue le consentement
de Messieurs les Curéz de Notre Dame jay soussigné marié solemnellement
Charle du Breuil de la paroisse de Notre Dame avec Francoise
Antoinette Rabattez de cette paroisse en presence de Jacque Le
Roy oncle dudit du Breuil, Jeanne Le Roy, Marie Marguerite Le
Roy, de Catherine Lami(?) mere de ladite mariante, Claude Bertel,
Pierre Le Becqle(?), Marie Marguerite Rabattez, Firmin Fiorard, de Jeanne
Catherine Rabattez et de Jean Baptiste Dolberd, lesquels ont signéz avec
nous excepté ledit Charle du Breuil qui a fait sa marque declarant ne
scavoir ecrire.

Offline goldie61

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Re: French marriage to decipher
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 10 November 21 21:15 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks Zefiro.
There are no signatures for this entry - this is at the bottom of the page, though I will go back and check they're not on the next page.
I have come across some marriage entries twice. Once written out with no signatures, and once with signatures. Perhaps one was the calling of the banns.
I will check later.

Would Catherine Lami be the bride's mother?
Cheers
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs


Offline Zefiro

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Re: French marriage to decipher
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 10 November 21 21:29 GMT (UK) »
Would Catherine Lami be the bride's mother?

This Catherine is the bride's mother, that's correct. However, her surname could be slightly different, because it's difficult to read.

Offline goldie61

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Re: French marriage to decipher
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 11 November 21 00:58 GMT (UK) »
Here is another entry for the same marriage.
This is from the actual pas de calais archives website.
The other one was from My Heritage. They credit the film as being from the pas de calais archives.
It seems to me there must be two books which contain the same entries. Perhaps there was a system like the Bishop's Transcripts in England, where one copy was kept at the church, and one sent to a central archive.
It's definitely in two different books. This one is at the top of the left hand page, and has all these signatures; the other was at the bottom of the right hand page, and had no signatures.
It does look like the same handwriting though.
I'm still finding my way around what French records are on line!

This one is much easier to read. I should have found it first! But the films on the pas de calais site have no indexing as far as I can see, and you just have to wade through each frame, and need to know the exact church to search, whereas at least My Heritage makes an attempt at finding entries for you.

So the bride's mother does look like Catherine Lamie.
Do you know if this was like Scotland, where married women often still used their maiden names after marriage, or would she have remarried to to a M Lamie?

Thanks Zefiro
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline Zefiro

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Re: French marriage to decipher
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 11 November 21 10:12 GMT (UK) »
Good you managed to find the version with the signatures. It helps to clear some uncertainties. Note that the way the names are written in the text doesn't always match the way the person writes his or her name. There was no standardization and you wrote a name the way you were said it should be or, if not in that case, you just phonetically made a guess. By the way, did you notice, on the right side, that Francoise misspelled her first name and wrote Francoissoisse?
Following are corrections:
Lami Lamie
Bertel Bertol(le)
Fiorard Fierard
Dolberd Delbard/Delbarre
Le Becqle Le Basele

I can't answer your question regarding keeping maiden name or not.


Offline jayaygee

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Re: French marriage to decipher
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 11 November 21 13:35 GMT (UK) »
Regarding women keeping their maiden surname for most official purposes: yes, this is what happens in France.

From 1667 a copy of parish registers was to be sent to the "greffe", very much like the Bishops' transcripts.  As it was copy it wasn't normally signed.

There is an index to the Montreuil-sur-Mer parish registers here:

https://sd-1.archive-host.com/membres/up/2366266425731913/Montreuil_1593-1791.pdf

to marriages only on this site:

http://cancheauthie.free.fr/tm.htm

and for marriage settlements drawn up in Montreuil between 1745 and 1775 here:

http://lledieu.free.fr/eringart/AD62-5C149-homme.pdf (husbands)
http://lledieu.free.fr/eringart/AD62-5C149-femme.pdf (wives)

 




BDF Twigg, Ellingham, Gates
BKM Bilbey, Collins, Brandon, Norwood, Smith
HAM Holloway (Romsey area)
HRT Brooks (Tring area)
LDN Saunders, Beedle
MDX Saunders
MLN Maitland, Robertson, McGlashan(all Edinburgh)
OXF Morby, Cross, Gardner (all Banbury area)
SAL Jones, Mathews, Higginson, Davies, Gobourn, Blount
WAR Pritchard (Birmingham)
WRY Dickinson, Atkinson, Mellon, Pritchard, Ashforth, Helliwell, Hague, Dungworth (all Sheffield area)

Offline goldie61

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Re: French marriage to decipher
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 11 November 21 19:42 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Zefiro and jayaygee for the corrections,  information regarding married womens' names , and all the links to indexes to the Montreuil registers.
It does seem as if some of these registers on-line are the originals, and some the copies then. Thanks for clearing that up.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs