Author Topic: looking for 'Alexander McDonald' Scottish immigrant to Melbourne 1850s  (Read 764 times)

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: looking for 'Alexander McDonald' Scottish immigrant to Melbourne 1850s
« Reply #9 on: Monday 15 November 21 06:07 GMT (UK) »


I am still unclear about the document you are looking at for 1859 marriage.

It is a transcription....all handwritten?

"Further info from certificate (all handwritten):.......witnesses: Alexander McDonald, Calico Printer (father); Ann McDonald (mother)"

The witnesses, Alexander McDONALD....after his name you see the word ...father?
                      Ann McDONALD.............after her name you see the word ....mother?

I have seen numerous marriage certificates for Victoria and other states. I do not recall seeing one where the witnesses are identified by their relationship to....anyone.

What certificates do you have for BDM events, Australia and New Zealand,  for the family you are researching?

Offline baz201

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Re: looking for 'Alexander McDonald' Scottish immigrant to Melbourne 1850s
« Reply #10 on: Monday 15 November 21 07:33 GMT (UK) »
MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE WRITTEN DETAILS

date of marriage 21 Feb 1859

Henry Michael McCaull, 30, Geelong, architect: his witnesses: Michael McCaull, School master; Mary Ann McCaull

Mary McDonald, 19, Arden St North Melbourne, dressmaker: her witnesses: Alexander McDonald, Calico Printer (father); Ann McDonald (mother)

the marriage was solemnised as according to the James? of the Church of Scotland

in the presence of Alexander McDonald and Rev G Reed?
by James Sergeant?  Officiating Minister   

Offline baz201

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Re: looking for 'Alexander McDonald' Scottish immigrant to Melbourne 1850s
« Reply #11 on: Monday 15 November 21 07:38 GMT (UK) »
YES the certificate is all handwritten. I just pasted in some details from findmypast above that were in their index for the marriage.

yes, the words (father) and (mother) appear in brackets as witnesses next to the handwritten names, Alexander McDonald & Ann McDonald. Alexander did not sign the certificate as he was illiterate and it says "X his mark" in writing. I wish I could just paste the cerificate here..!

Really all I want to know is what happened to the mother and father (Alexander and Ann) after the marriage.


Offline baz201

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Re: looking for 'Alexander McDonald' Scottish immigrant to Melbourne 1850s
« Reply #12 on: Monday 15 November 21 07:42 GMT (UK) »
I have the birth and marriage certificates/details for everybody on that marriage certificate ie. Aleander McDonald, Ann McDonald (nee McLean) and Mary McDonald herself. I don't have the one for Henry Michael McCaull as I am not researchhing that side of the family.

As stated, I am trying to find out what happened to Alexander and Ann after the wedding, and hope to get details of death certificates.

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: looking for 'Alexander McDonald' Scottish immigrant to Melbourne 1850s
« Reply #13 on: Monday 15 November 21 07:51 GMT (UK) »
I am seeing that Mary and Henry McCAULL have several children. Mary has father Alexander, mother Ann/Agnes, brother Hugh, brother James.....but the only suggestion of these names is second name for (fourth?) son.

The name RUSSELL does not continue in the McCAULL family.

Does the name RUSSELL only appear after Mary's marriage, 1859?

Is Mary a RUSSELL who has come into the life of the McDONALD family?

"Really all I want to know is what happened to the mother and father (Alexander and Ann) after the marriage."

If it was easy you would have found these people by now. It is not easy, and you need to know as much as you can about......everything in Mary's life.

BDM NZ death
1918/17363   McCAULL   Mary Russell   79Y

Can you list all the information on this 1918 death certificate.







Offline baz201

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Re: looking for 'Alexander McDonald' Scottish immigrant to Melbourne 1850s
« Reply #14 on: Monday 15 November 21 08:34 GMT (UK) »
I'm sorry I'm out of my depth now. I don't have a death Cert for Mary Russell McCaull and I don't really have the money to throw around to get it. I was just lucky that some relatives gave me the marriage Cert.

As far as I know the Russell became part of her name after the marriage. There is certainly no Russell in the family pre the marriage. I don't know where it came from.

maybe will just have to give up on this one

Offline ColC

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Re: looking for 'Alexander McDonald' Scottish immigrant to Melbourne 1850s
« Reply #15 on: Monday 15 November 21 12:11 GMT (UK) »
Hi Barry,

Re: your post.” What does OUC stand for”?

The 1841 census has a column, which asks the question.

If born in Scotland state whether in County or elsewhere. =
Most enumerators wrote Y/ N  - Yes/No – blank/county
(Or if you are lucky the enumerator might have written where, as was the case with Mary)

A second column asks. If born in England, Ireland or Foreign = E/ I// F


I did see the 1851 census on freecen. I discounted it because place of birth for Alex & Mary also Mary is noted as married and no Donald. Not to mention Skye is in Invernessshire not Argyll.

West Shaw St. Kilmarnock, just the MCDONALD family less Lodgers
Alex   Head   M   M   49   Steamer   IRL   -
Ann   Wife   M   F   48      ARL   Skye
Hugh   Son   U   M   20   Calico Printer   ARL   Skye
Mary   Dau   M   F   22   Tailor Journeyman   ARL   Skye

I checked the transcript on SP, whilst Alex 49 & Ann 48 seemed ok. Hugh was noted as 26 and Mary 22
None of this seemed to match the 1841 census. Have you seen the original 1841/ 1851 census returns?

The fact is there is a record in Ayrshire for the Marriage of Alexander & Agnes/Ann and a baptism for Mary 5/09/1840, noted as the 4th child. This last statement leads me to believe they might have been married earlier, prior to the births of Hugh & Donald. They may have moved to Ayrshire prior to the birth of Mary but they were not born in the county and indeed Alexander may have been born in Ireland.

How to prove it may be a little difficult.

Regards Colin
Clarke, Trickett, Orton, Lawless, Norton, Detheridge, Kirby, Goodfellow, Wagstaff, Lowe, etc.

Offline baz201

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Re: looking for 'Alexander McDonald' Scottish immigrant to Melbourne 1850s
« Reply #16 on: Monday 15 November 21 13:01 GMT (UK) »
Hi again Colin,

Yes all very confusing.

It all comes down to digging into the facts behind a family legend that Mary is somehow related to the MacDonalds who rescued Bonnie Prince Charlie, Flora MacDonald. My uncle tells me she is related to a cousin of Flora's. This appears to be confirmed here in a clipping from the NZ "Women's Corner", an obituary for Mary:

Press 26 Aug 1918  p2
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19180826.2.6?

This was kindly pointed out to me by someone down under, in the thread above

What puzzles me is that Mary as I have researched her, would appear to be Lowland Scots, if I have traced the records correctly.

There are only 2 other Mary McDonalds born around 1840, with a father by the name of "Alexander" and mother "Ann" that I could find in Scotland in the records. One migrated to and died in Canada, the other appears to have remained in Scotland and was married to a Scotsman in 1866 in North Uist by the time of Mary's marriage in Melbourne in 1859.

What does intrigue me is the 1851 census and your references to Skye. If they are a red herring or not. I don't know. The 1851 findmypast transcription shows most of them as from Argyllshire. I have been told that people were not always truthful when the census was taken, for whatever reason. I guess the census takers traveled the country and did not know the locals, so could not verify the information.

I'm currently out of credits on scotlandspeople, so will have to revisit that one with getting the original censuses

thanks again, Barry

Offline ColC

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Re: looking for 'Alexander McDonald' Scottish immigrant to Melbourne 1850s
« Reply #17 on: Monday 15 November 21 16:15 GMT (UK) »
Flora MacDonald; was a member of the MacDonald's of Sleat.
Born: 1722, Milton
Died: 5 March 1790, Kingsburgh
Place of burial: Kilmuir Cemetery
Spouse: Allan MacDonald (m. 1750–1790)
Known for: assisting Charles Edward Stuart after his defeat at the Battle of Culloden
Children: John Macdonald

Sadly none of the above is recorded on SP

From the information so far it looks possible that Ann/Agnes may have been born on Skye but if you look at the section headed Help & Advice on SP, scroll down to the records available section, I think you will find there no records for parishes on Skye before the early 1800s and no deaths before 1855 statutory registration.

If the boys were born on Skye the records might be there but I do not see any. It is possible that Ann/Agnes may have been married before, the marriage records I posted may add more information but it may simply say he married her?

 ALEXANDER MCDONALD   Married    AGNES MCLEAN   9 NOVEMBER 1835   KILMARNOCK REFORMED PRESBYTERIAN

ALEXANDER MCDONALD   To    AGNES MCLEAN   15/09/1835   Banns maybe   Kilmarnock

Good luck Colin
Clarke, Trickett, Orton, Lawless, Norton, Detheridge, Kirby, Goodfellow, Wagstaff, Lowe, etc.