Author Topic: help deciphering latin words on irish baptismal cert  (Read 164 times)

Online riannisuileabhain

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help deciphering latin words on irish baptismal cert
« on: Monday 15 November 21 15:31 GMT (UK) »
hi, im researching my family history at the moment and have come across writing in the "circumstances and comments" section of a baptismal record that says something that im having trouble deciphering. im pretty sure that the first word says "sub" which means under in latin, dont have a clue what the other word says, if anyone could give me a hand it would be much appreciated  :) thanks!

Offline manukarik

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Re: help deciphering latin words on irish baptismal cert
« Reply #1 on: Monday 15 November 21 15:36 GMT (UK) »
I think it says sub cond. short for sub conditione and meaning conditionally. Does that make sense in the context of the whole document?
Clarkson, Tolladay, Prevost, Killick, Hicks

Offline arthurk

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Re: help deciphering latin words on irish baptismal cert
« Reply #2 on: Monday 15 November 21 15:47 GMT (UK) »
Sub conditione would certainly fit the context; it's sometimes seen in a baptism register to refer to a conditional baptism. This is when there is some doubt as to whether someone has already been baptised, and the priest will use words to the effect of "If you have not already been baptised, I baptise you...."

Circumstances when this might occur include someone joining the church as an adult convert, or if there's some question about how an emergency baptism was administered.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Online riannisuileabhain

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Re: help deciphering latin words on irish baptismal cert
« Reply #3 on: Monday 15 November 21 15:56 GMT (UK) »
the child on the record was born on october 1 according to civil records and born on september 28 according to the baptismal record, could the child had been prematurely born/unhealthy when born and an emergency baptism was performed in those few days? (for context, the baptism on the record took place on oct 5). thanks :)

Offline gaffy

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Re: help deciphering latin words on irish baptismal cert
« Reply #4 on: Monday 15 November 21 16:24 GMT (UK) »
I've encountered the same several times before, I'm interpreting this as an 'emergency' baptism (due to doubt over the survival of the child), I have read that it was sometimes even performed by the midwife or handywoman.


Offline arthurk

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Re: help deciphering latin words on irish baptismal cert
« Reply #5 on: Monday 15 November 21 17:16 GMT (UK) »
That does sound as though the midwife (or other attendant etc) performed an emergency baptism because it was feared the child would die before a priest could come and baptise him/her.

No doubt there was panic and confusion and the midwife may have been unable to recall exactly how it had been done, so to make sure of the situation the priest performed a conditional baptism.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online Maiden Stone

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Re: help deciphering latin words on irish baptismal cert
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 16 November 21 16:43 GMT (UK) »
the child on the record was born on october 1 according to civil records and born on september 28 according to the baptismal record, could the child had been prematurely born/unhealthy when born and an emergency baptism was performed in those few days? (for context, the baptism on the record took place on oct 5). thanks :)

Do you mean the conditional baptism happened on 5th October?
If the entry in the baptism register was made a short time after birth, that date of birth was more likely to be correct. The date on the birth registration may have been mis-remembered or deliberately falsified to fit within the time allowed for registering births.
I agree with other replies. Someone baptised the baby at home and a priest carried out a conditional baptism later.
Cowban

Offline Joney

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Re: help deciphering latin words on irish baptismal cert
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 16 November 21 17:42 GMT (UK) »
Yes, I agree. I think it needs pointing out to the OP that conditional baptisms aren't particularly unusual.
Liverpool - Ireland 
 Skerries, County Dublin - Thorn(ton),  Wicklow -  Traynor
Baltray, Co. Louth, McGuirk and  Co. Mayo -  Phillips
Isle of Man - Harrison -  Andreas and Morrison - Maughold, 
Durham, Hetton and East Rainton area  - Brown and Kennedy
Northumberland - Clough, Longbenton