Author Topic: Bertol French baptism  (Read 302 times)

Offline GR2

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Re: Bertol French baptism
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 18 November 21 09:13 GMT (UK) »
It would really take an expert in 17th century France to answer that. He is not THE Receiver General, but receiver general for one particular thing.

I have ancestors who were joint custumars in Edinburgh, responsible for collecting the customs at the port of Leith. They were responsible, but the day-to-day work was done by a servant. Every year, they or their servant submitted their accounts to auditors for approval and they received a fee based on the amount of money collected. They made far more money from their on-going trading ventures with Flanders.

I was able to follow their periods of appointment and work through the Accounts of the Lord High Treasurer. There may well be a similar surviving French record. The thing to do would be to find out exactly what he is collecting.

Offline jayaygee

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Re: Bertol French baptism
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 18 November 21 11:03 GMT (UK) »
I'm not sure if this really helps but I have found a Suzanne BERTHIE daughter of Claude BERTHIER, receveur de l'abbaye de Corbie and Suzanne LEDOUX who married Antoine BOISSEL on 24 April 1679  Amiens - St Firmin de la Porte.  This could be the Suzanne born in 1660, in which case either the younger Suzanne was adopted by Claude Berthier or there is an error in her baptism record.  So far I haven't found the marriage of Claude Berthier and Suzanne Ledoux, but their son, Claude, was baptised on 4 June 1662 in the same parish.

BDF Twigg, Ellingham, Gates
BKM Bilbey, Collins, Brandon, Norwood, Smith
HAM Holloway (Romsey area)
HRT Brooks (Tring area)
LDN Saunders, Beedle
MDX Saunders
MLN Maitland, Robertson, McGlashan(all Edinburgh)
OXF Morby, Cross, Gardner (all Banbury area)
SAL Jones, Mathews, Higginson, Davies, Gobourn, Blount
WAR Pritchard (Birmingham)
WRY Dickinson, Atkinson, Mellon, Pritchard, Ashforth, Helliwell, Hague, Dungworth (all Sheffield area)

Offline jayaygee

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Re: Bertol French baptism
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 18 November 21 15:51 GMT (UK) »
Other baptism entries say Claude Berthier is "Commissaire aux vivres" which seems to be borne out by the footnote 24  on page 207 of this book:
https://books.google.fr/books?id=pKnyCQAAQBAJ&pg=PA207&lpg=PA207&dq=claude+berthier+receveur+g%C3%A9n%C3%A9ral+des++vivres+d%27amiens&source=bl&ots=MRcuYQkD8r&sig=ACfU3U3Mq_K8vbUsml2uSSW9fr9BJ7LG5w&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjD9q68naL0AhXsBGMBHYhlAZYQ6AF6BAgQEAM#v=onepage&q=claude%20berthier%20receveur%20g%C3%A9n%C3%A9ral%20des%20%20vivres%20d'amiens&f=false
It would seem that his job as "receveur de l'Abbaye de Corbie" was a side-line in addition to his main job.
BDF Twigg, Ellingham, Gates
BKM Bilbey, Collins, Brandon, Norwood, Smith
HAM Holloway (Romsey area)
HRT Brooks (Tring area)
LDN Saunders, Beedle
MDX Saunders
MLN Maitland, Robertson, McGlashan(all Edinburgh)
OXF Morby, Cross, Gardner (all Banbury area)
SAL Jones, Mathews, Higginson, Davies, Gobourn, Blount
WAR Pritchard (Birmingham)
WRY Dickinson, Atkinson, Mellon, Pritchard, Ashforth, Helliwell, Hague, Dungworth (all Sheffield area)


Offline goldie61

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Re: Bertol French baptism
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 18 November 21 21:40 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks for your information GR2 and jayaygee.
It would indeed seem he had some different jobs in Amiens.
There's a mention of him in a book on Geneanet:
"Lettres de provision a Claude Berthier de l'office de sergent des aides et tailles en l'election d'Amiens......."
Google translate helpful translates this to the 'sergeant of aids and sizes', which loses something in the translation! Any ideas what it really means?
Although most of the records show him as 'Berthier', there is that one of the baptisms of 1660 that spells it 'Bertol'. Very interesting.
I found a burial records of Susanne le doux in September 1684.
It gives her husband as 'Berthier', but I can't see the name Claude there. Perhaps it is a title of some sort? I'd be grateful is someone could transcribe this. Thanks.
Not found his burial though.

Thanks again for your interest in this.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline manukarik

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Re: Bertol French baptism
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 18 November 21 22:31 GMT (UK) »
Sergent des tailles. Sergent chargé du recouvrement des impôts. Le Conseil du roi fixe annuellement le montant de la taille (...). Les collecteurs, ou sergents des tailles, établissent enfin la cote de chaque taillable (GDEL, s.v. taille).

In other words, he was responsible for collecting taxes and if you look at the link below, customs.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_Aids so aides refers to customs (or public finance).

Cour des aides. Ancienne cour instituée sur l'initiative des États généraux de 1355, érigée en cour souveraine au xve siècle pour trancher le contentieux en matière d'impôts, pour juger en dernier ressort et entre toutes personnes de tous procès tant civils que criminels au sujet des aides, gabelles, tailles et autres impositions. Elle fut supprimée en 1790 ainsi que toutes les autres institutions judiciaires de l'Ancien régime. Les attributions des anciennes cours des aides sont aujourd'hui dévolues au Conseil d'État sous le rapport administratif et aux tribunaux ordinaires sous le rapport civil correctionnel et criminel
Clarkson, Tolladay, Prevost, Killick, Hicks

Offline goldie61

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Re: Bertol French baptism
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 18 November 21 22:40 GMT (UK) »
Thanks very much manukarik.
Back to a tax collector again! I bet he was popular!!  ;)
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline goldie61

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Re: Bertol French baptism
« Reply #15 on: Friday 19 November 21 20:27 GMT (UK) »
Was anyone able to make out what it says between 'Susanne le doux' and 'Berthier' at the start of the next line, in the clip of Susanne's burial in reply #12 above?

Many thanks
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline jayaygee

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Re: Bertol French baptism
« Reply #16 on: Friday 19 November 21 20:43 GMT (UK) »
I think it says :

"...à son décès f(emm)e de m(onsieu)r..."
BDF Twigg, Ellingham, Gates
BKM Bilbey, Collins, Brandon, Norwood, Smith
HAM Holloway (Romsey area)
HRT Brooks (Tring area)
LDN Saunders, Beedle
MDX Saunders
MLN Maitland, Robertson, McGlashan(all Edinburgh)
OXF Morby, Cross, Gardner (all Banbury area)
SAL Jones, Mathews, Higginson, Davies, Gobourn, Blount
WAR Pritchard (Birmingham)
WRY Dickinson, Atkinson, Mellon, Pritchard, Ashforth, Helliwell, Hague, Dungworth (all Sheffield area)

Offline goldie61

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Re: Bertol French baptism
« Reply #17 on: Friday 19 November 21 20:58 GMT (UK) »
Ah! Many thanks jayaygee.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs