Who were The NICE brothers, please... London 1880s perhaps

[heywood]

From those births
There is a marriage 1875, Brixton
Harriet Maria Kemp and John Heath 20 yrs , Coachman

Did John Heath become William Nice?

[heywood]

Death Harriet Heath in 1881
Marriage 1881 Brixton
John Heath, widower, Coachman and Hanora Bateman

There is nothing to indicate that this John is a musician but the children fit with that 1891 census 

[cuffie81]

I was just coming to the same conclusion you have, heywood.

[guest259648]

I was just coming to the same conclusion you have, heywood.

cuffie81

I'd already come to that conclusion. xx
Which is why I'm asking about Mr NICE.

Musicians often have 2 different names: a professional one, and one they were born with.
Or they use the name they were born with as their professional name, and adopt another name for use in a social sense, for privacy.
[I'm a musician, I mix with them.]

So my new question, please, is:
Is this banjo-man 'William NICE' by birth, or 'John HEATH'?


To help us:
John Heath (with those children, and more) marries twice.
First marriage, he says his father is Henry Heath, Brewer.
Second marriage, his father is John Heath, Brewer. (Forgotten he said Henry?)

I recall that some of his children, upon marriage, quote him as 'John Heath, musician' (I will hunt for the references).

But earlier this year we found a William NICE mother BREWER (will try to retrieve the info and post it here), so I'm wondering if he was born NICE/Brewer and used his mother's maiden name as an occupation, so he didn't forget what he wrote...!

I'd love to be able to unpick this. Ideas please.
Thanks a lot for your help.
D

[guest259648]

From those births
There is a marriage 1875, Brixton
Harriet Maria Kemp and John Heath 20 yrs , Coachman

Did John Heath become William Nice?

heywood
You're very sharp and yes, this marriage record is relevant.
You've named the 2 wives of John Heath.
... aka William NICE.
Or - is it William NICE aka John Heath?

Can we look at this please?  I can supply more details of "John Heath" 's life if it assists.

Well done for spotting it, and I'm grateful for all help.
D

[heywood]

I spent a long time looking for Mr Nice and subsequently Mr Heath and matching those children.
It seems as though it was a waste of time as you already have that information and maybe more.
It is most disappointing, Dulciebun, that you neglected to mention this information.
Indeed, you post states,
“ NICE is believed to be a real surname, not a stage name.”

From those births
There is a marriage 1875, Brixton
Harriet Maria Kemp and John Heath 20 yrs , Coachman

Did John Heath become William Nice?

heywood
You're very sharp and yes, this marriage record is relevant.
You've named the 2 wives of John Heath.
... aka William NICE.
Or - is it William NICE aka John Heath?

Can we look at this please?  I can supply more details of "John Heath" 's life if it assists.

Well done for spotting it, and I'm grateful for all help.
D

I can’t see much point in looking at this even with your further details of John Heath.
cuffie81 has been most generous with their time and shared many references for William Nice and has reached a similar conclusion re John Heath.

[guest259648]

I spent a long time looking for Mr Nice and subsequently Mr Heath and matching those children.
It seems as though it was a waste of time as you already have that information and maybe more.
It is most disappointing, Dulciebun, that you neglected to mention this information.
Indeed, you post states,
“ NICE is believed to be a real surname, not a stage name.”

From those births
There is a marriage 1875, Brixton
Harriet Maria Kemp and John Heath 20 yrs , Coachman

Did John Heath become William Nice?

heywood
You're very sharp and yes, this marriage record is relevant.
You've named the 2 wives of John Heath.
... aka William NICE.
Or - is it William NICE aka John Heath?

Can we look at this please?  I can supply more details of "John Heath" 's life if it assists.

Well done for spotting it, and I'm grateful for all help.
D

I can’t see much point in looking at this even with your further details of John Heath.
cuffie81 has been most generous with their time and shared many references for William Nice and has reached a similar conclusion re John Heath.

I'm upset by your comments.
Nothing is a 'given', in record-searching.
Sometimes you need a second and even a third opinion, regarding what you see.

I've been told nothing about this family: everything I have has come from digging and guessing and inferring.

I was accurate in stating that NICE is believed to be a 'real' surname and not a made-up name e.g. the Great Grimaldi.

If I'd announced that X = Y, then that colours people's judgments, and they see what they've been conditioned to see.

You might have found something completely different from me, and said something else.
We have access to different records, depending on what we subscribe to.

A lot of what has been provided here by RootsChat is completely new to me and therefore valuable.

Please apologise.
I feel injured.
I've done nothing wrong, and wasted nobody's time. Very unhappy indeed.

D

[guest259648]

heywood

You can apologise to me privately if you prefer. I've given you the opportunity.
This is no place to be rude, nor to give a fellow volunteer a telling off. It's not nice.

My observations:
1. You have no idea why I am asking about this person... (I think you'd feel a little foolish if I told you);
2. I had no idea who the people in the photo were...;
3. I had no proof at all that one man was possibly using 2 identities...;
4. This is not my family, it's a request from another party, and a search has been offered in goodwill (no payment);
5. Everything generously provided here on RootsChat is new and valuable e.g the concert programmes, links to sites, the advertisements, the excellent photo on the cover of the sheet music...

Your own observation that a census entry for one name appeared to match details for another name is a highly valuable contribution.

I didn't ask you to search (it's your own choice).

Please think before you attack.
And please ASK, before you write, if you are unsure of the motives of the person who's made a post.

Sent in good faith and with goodwill, which is how I always operate.

D

[heywood]

Dulciebun,
As you say we are a generous community on Rootschat and you, I and others enjoy helping each other in our research.  It is so often a joy.
I really thought I was helping you with my finds and that you would be as pleased as me.
I never intentionally insult anyone and as you know I have been glad to help you in the past with your queries, especially the Irish names and families. 
I did ask if the gentleman was your ancestor, if you recall.
Thank you for your observations here and in your personal message.  I have noted them.
I regret that you think I was rude. That was not my intention.
I hope you find your William Nice. He is difficult to find in the censuses and family records.
Best wishes
Heywood