William and James Costello of Mile Tree, Clonmel, Tipperary

[A Logical Genie]

If you are reading this, Hello. It is my first self-initiated post on RootsChat.

I have a couple of questions that I would welcome your thoughts on.

Question 1: Where was William Costello (born ca 1840) baptized?

My great grandfather William Costello was born (ca 1840) in or near Clonmel, Tipperary (possibly at Mile Tree). He emigrated to New Zealand arriving ca 1860 (I cannot find when or where he entered New Zealand). He died (1908) at his farm in North Canterbury, New Zealand.  He had named his farm “Clonmel”.

On both his marriage and death certificates his father is listed as Michael Costello. He married a widow, Eliza Jane Bunting (nee Dalzell) in New Zealand in 1882. On his marriage certificate his mother is listed as Catherine Costello (nee O’Donald) and on his death certificate she is listed as Catherine Costello (nee McGrath). He had at least two siblings that came to New Zealand: his brother Michael (for whom I cannot find a death certificate or a grave) and his sister Annie (Anastasia) Poschich (nee Costello). I have been looking for birth registrations for him and his siblings, so far without luck. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Question 2: Is James Costello (born ca 1860) a brother of William Costello?

There is another family of Costello’s who lived at Mile Tree. They can be seen in the 1901 and 1911 Censuses (listed as Costelloe, Lawlesstown). Head of the family was James Costello. In the 1950’s a daughter-in-law of William visited Mile Tree Farm on a trip from New Zealand. She met several bachelor brothers of the family who lived there (sons of James). Another brother of the same Mile Tree Farm family did marry and two of his children are priests with whom I am in contact. Everyone seems to agree our families are related, but I have yet to find a link which confirms this.

The grandfather of the two priests is likely to be the James listed in the 1901 Census¹. A James Costello (of Miletree) married a Kate Burke in March 1881 according to the records. They appear to be the grandparents of the two priests. Kate was apparently known as Ellen Burke².

The father of this James was also a Michael Costello. Is this the same Michael Costello who was the father of William Costello? Were William and James brothers? I cannot find a birth registration for James or William online – finding these would certainly help. Any ideas or suggestions would be welcome.

Note: William was born ca 1840 and James [who married in 1881], if he is the one aged 40 in the 1901 census, would have been born ca 1860, which is a large (but not implausible) gap.

¹    https://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Clonmel_Rural/Lawlesstown/1709998/
²    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1881/10995/8020136.pdf

[Mick_Dolan86]

Civil registration in Ireland only began in 1864. You'll have to look at church records.

[ruffell place]

Dear A Logical Genie etc

Re William COSTELLO, b. ca. 1840 in/near Clonmel, County Tipperary, Ireland
                                  arrived (Bluff, Southland,?) New Zealand, possibly via Melbourne, Australia
                                 d. 17 January 1908, at "Clonmel" (Farm), Costellos Road, The Peaks, North Canterbury

     Annie COSTELLO,  b. ca. 1841 in/near Clonmel, County Tipperary, Ireland
                                 arrived (West Coast,?) New Zealand, possibly via Melbourne, Australia

m. Raymond POSCHICH - ca. 1825, Fiume, Croatia (Austrian Empire) 
                                    - d. 1912 Barrytown, New Zealand
    Annie/Anastatia/Anastasia Costello ("Costellor") POSCHICH
                                    - d. 1917 Cobden, New Zealand
Both buried - Barrytown Cemetery, 86 Cargills Road, Barrytown, West Coast   

       Michael COSTELLO, b. ca. 1840 in/near Clonmel, County Tipperary, Ireland
                                 arrived (West Coast,?) New Zealand, possibly via Melbourne, Australia "with sister?"
                                 - detained 1852 (aged "12")
                                 - supposeedly Michael accompanied Annie to New Zealalnd
                                 - owned 50 acres farmland adjacent "Clonmel"
                                 - 1884: taken by Crown as an asylums estate
=============================================================

My Grandmother Kathleen Dwyer COSTELLO (Temuka, 1895 - Christchurch, 1998), m. Thomas Christchurch, 1921, widowed 1951. Lived in Masons's Flat 1897 - 1953. Went on a trip to Ireland in the late fifties, early sixties and found "two old men" still living in the family farm.

Some Costellos have travelled out to see the New Zealand branch, the latest a Priest in about 2006(ish?). I did not meet him.                   









MICHAEL findings
in next posting - bit long?!

==================================================

Cheers from Nelson, New Zealand

[ruffell place]

CONTINUATION

MICHAEL findings
=========================================================
CLONMEL Jail Records 1851 - 1870

COSTELLO Michael - Clonmel Goal - 1852 - June 29
https://www.ancestrylibrary.com.au/imageviewer/collections/61943/images/ire_prisr_rs00018280_4492623_00276?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=460c0570cc9264cab2c5a331f778feed&usePUB=true&_phsrc=v23-1252724&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=102810
No.  PRISONERS'      Age  Education Religion HEIGHT Eyes  Hair    Comp.(lexion?)   When          By Whom       ..... Sentence   Date of Discharge
        NAMES                                                    F.  I.                                                 Committed     Committed
2817 Michael Costello  12     N ??          C          4  5        Brown  Brown  Fresh             June 29       John Hackett              dischd       July 1
& 2819 repeated

COSTELLO Michael -  Clonmel Goal - 1852 - July 22
https://www.ancestrylibrary.com.au/imageviewer/collections/61943/images/ire_prisr_rs00018280_4492623_00292?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=v23-1517818&_phstart=successSource&pId=108240
No.  PRISONERS'      Age  Education Religion HEIGHT Eyes   Hair    Comp.   When          By Whom       ....Sentence   Date ofDischarge
        NAMES                                                    F.  I.                               (lexion?) Committed  Committed
3181 Michael Costello  12?    N ??          C         4  0?       Blue    Brown     Fresh       July 25       Mr Byrne               dischd       July 24

of interest
COSTELLO Anthony - Clonmel Goal - 1852 - July 22
https://www.ancestrylibrary.com.au/imageviewer/collections/61943/images/ire_prisr_rs00018280_4492623_00292?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=460c0570cc9264cab2c5a331f778feed&usePUB=true&_phsrc=v232031662&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=108240
No.  PRISONERS'      Age  Education Religion HEIGHT Eyes Hair Comp.   When          By Whom       ..... Sentence   Date of Discharge
        NAMES                                                    F.  I.                      (lexion?)  Committed  Committed
3186 Anthony Costello  12    R            C            4   4       Grey Brown Fresh     July 22       Mr Byrne               dischd       July 24
    
                                          
COSTELLO Michael - 1852 - Clonmel Goal - July 25
https://www.ancestrylibrary.com.au/imageviewer/collections/61943/images/ire_prisr_rs00018280_4492623_00293?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=460c0570cc9264cab2c5a331f778feed&usePUB=true&_phsrc=v232031662&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=108240
No.  PRISONERS'    Age  Education Religion HEIGHT Eyes    Hair     Comp.    When          By Whom       ..... Sentence   Date of Discharge
        NAMES                                                  F.  I.                             (lexion?) Committed    Committed
3205 Michael Costello 12?     N           C         4. 0.      Brown Brown     Fresh      July 25           Mr Byrne               dischd          July 26
                                   (handwritten "Mayor")

next in Ancestry list - probably unrelated - Michael COSTELLO - drunkeness - Waterford 1864
https://www.ancestrylibrary.com.au/imageviewer/collections/61943/images/ire_prisr_rs00018282_4492782_00151?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=v23-796295&_phstart=successSource&pId=3115383
No.  PRISONERS'   Age  HEIGHT Eyes    Hair     Comp.   Residence    Education Religion  Trade      By Whom  Date of        Offence     Sentence   
        NAMES                      F.  I.                            (lexion?)                                                                 Committed Commital
425  Michael Costello 25      5  7      Grey  Brown     Fresh    Galls Mills   None          RC       Labourer Mr Lawler  23 Aug1864   Drunkenes  Fined
                                                                                            Co. Kilkenny                                                                                                    2/6 &                                                                                                                                                                                                                Costs or 24.?                                                                                                                                                                                                                     (hours)


COSTELLO Michael - 20 years age - assault -  Clonmel Goal - 1861                                                                                         
https://www.ancestrylibrary.com.au/imageviewer/collections/61943/images/ire_prisr_rs00018280_4492623_00551?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=v23588767&_phstart=successSource&pId=188357
No.  PRISONERS'      Age  Education Religion HEIGHT   Eyes   Hair      Comp.         When          By Whom   Sentence    Date of Discharge
        NAMES                                                       F.  I.                             (lexion?)     Committed  Committed
853  Michael Costello  20     N ??           C            5  9 1/2    Brown  Brown  Fresh         28 Dec       Mr Bush?       14 days HL     9 January 1862

-----------------------------------------------------------
COSTELLO Michael - 16 years age - discharged at Petty Session -  Galway Goal - 1856

[ruffell place]

CONTINUATION

MICHAEL findings
=========================================================


creenshots
-----------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.ancestrylibrary.com.au/discoveryui-content/view/406765:70791?tid=&pid=&queryId=8a973676a04b8e553d03721293f4cb21&_phsrc=v23654719&_phstart=successSource

Michael Costello
Age:   25
Birth Year:   abt 1838
Departure Date:   Jan 1863
Departure Place:   Victoria, Australia
Destination:   PORT CHALMERS NZ
Ship:   NORWESTER
Ship's Master:   ALMY ROBT B
Page:   011


=================================================
ESTATE OF MICHAEL COSTELLO
PRESS, VOLUME XL, ISSUE 5917, 30 AUGUST 1884
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP18840830.2.22.6?end_date=30-01-1885&items_per_page=100&page=17&query=costello&snippet=true&sort_by=byDA&start_date=03-05-1850&title=AMBPA%2cAG%2cASHH%2cEG%2cGLOBE%2cLT%2cNCGAZ%2cOO%2cCHP%2cSCANT%2cTS%2cSUNCH%2cTEML%2cTHD%2cWDA%2cCHARG%2cGRA%2cGEST%2cHOG%2cIT%2cKUMAT%2cLTCBG%2cWCT%2cWEST%2cAHCOG%2cBH%2cCL%2cCROMARG%2cDUNST%2cESD%2cLCM%2cLCP%2cLWM%2cME%2cMIC%2cMTBM%2cNOT%2cOAM%2cODT%2cOW%2cOSWCC%2cSOCR%2cST%2cTT%2cWSTAR

IN THE ESTATE OF MICHAEL COSTELLO.

WAIKARI.

MESSRS. BENN & CO. have received instructors from the Public Trustee to

SELL BY AUCTION,
at AMBERLEY, on MONDAY, THE 15th SEPTEMBER, 1884,
50 acres magnificent AGRICULTURAL LAND, situate at Waikari, and being R.S. 26287

Sale at 12 o'clock.
BENN & CO .

see

1885. NEW ZEALAND. ESTATES IN THE HANDS OF THE PUBLIC TRUSTEE
Estates and Value thereof in the hands of the Public Trustee as Official Curator of  {...}Estates of Lunatic Patients.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/parliamentary/AJHR1885-I.2.3.2.32
COSTELLO Michael - £201 8s 2d
amount given is the estimated value

Note - this land is still in the family - Farmed by James Costello and his wife
==================================================

Cheers from Nelson, New Zealand

[Kiltaglassan]

ruffell place,

Most of your links relate to Ancestry Library Edition, where you are required to log in with your username and password.

Welcome to Ancestry Library Edition
Please enter a username and password or click help for assistance.

Much easier to take a snip of the relevant information and attach it using 'Attachments and other options'.

Also you can use the RootsChat ShrinkLink (https://www.rootschat.com/links/) to make long links short, as in your reply #4.

Good luck.

[ruffell place]

===================================

re ANASTASIA COSTELLO and others

William ("Guliu{?}lnius" - Baptised - 7 June 1834 - Carrick-on-Suir
Anastac(t/s)ia                - baptised  - 19 March 1836 - Carrick-on-Suir
Johanna                        - baptised - 1 May 1838 - Carrick-on-Suir
 ??Michael??                  - baptised  - 8? January 1840 - St. Mary's, Clonmel
                                    ?Thomas?
                                            others  ?                 
=====================================
ALSO -- see Catherine's surname spelling

Findings re Catherine (O'DONALD / DANIELL / DONNELL / O'DONNELL) COSTELLO
(this is from reading the marriage and birth listings AND because Anastasia COSTELLO (aged 18 years) is co-listed in the ship's passenger manifest numeration with a Margt  O'DONNELL (aged 16 years))
see
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/3B2A1B13-F96C-11E9-AE98-E568AC77A6FB?image=219
COSTELLO   ANASTASIA   18   1864   NOV   CHAMPION OF THE SEAS   OUTRIDGE JAMES M
(age 19 March 1836  > May 1869 = 26 years)
==========
Catherine and Michael
Married in Carrick-en-Suir
https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000632155_031
25 July 1833
NB - see Catherine's surname spelling -
=======
Baptised in?
Carrick-on-Suir; County of Tipperary; Diocese of Waterford and Lismore.

using the 9 month "rule" looking forward from marriage date
ie to March 1834 and so on we get ........

"Guliu{?}lnius" = WILLIAM (Ballypatrick Townland, Carrick-on-Suir, bapt.7 June 1834 - d. Clonmel, The Peaks, North Canterbury, N.Z., 7 January 1908) = 73 years
Microfilm 02456 / 03 | Page 7
Carrick-on-Suir; County of Tipperary; Diocese of Waterford and Lismore. Baptisms, June 1834 to July 1834
https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000632156_007
NB - Catherine surname = "Daniells (??)"
Lived to January 1908 - so 73 years

{using Paul Q's starting information....}
thence using the 24 month "rule" looking forward (and back) from (this /)( first) birth date
ie to March 1836 and so on

"Anastacia"  (Ballypatrick Townland, Carrick-on-Suir, bapt. 19 March 1836 - d. Greymouth, West Coast, N.Z., 21 February 1917) = 80 years
Microfilm 02456 / 03 | Page 41
Carrick-on-Suir; County of Tipperary; Diocese of Waterford and Lismore. Baptisms, Mar. 1836 to Apr. 1836
https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000632156_041
NB - see Catherine's surname spelling -
Lived to 21 FEBRUARY 1917 - so 80 years old, in 81st year

thence Johanna
1 May 1838 - Baptised
Microfilm 02456 / 03 | Page 86
Carrick-on-Suir; County of Tipperary; Diocese of Waterford and Lismore. Baptisms, Apr. 1838 to May 1838
https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000632156_086?print=true
NB - see Catherine's surname spelling - over written - hard read

{Anomalously ....}
?
Michael   (bapt. ?Clonmel. County Tipperary, 8? January 1840. d. N.Z.)
Microfilm 02461 / 04 | Page 95
St. Mary's, Clonmel; Counties of Tipperary, Waterford; Diocese of Waterford and Lismore. Baptisms, Dec. 1839 to Jan. 1840
https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000632164_095

To Australia
WILLIAM (Ballypatrick Townland, Carrick-on-Suir, bapt., 7 June 1834 - arrived Melbourne, January 1860) =  25 years
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/3B0DE06F-F96C-11E9-AE98-4BA0F0071BF0?image=222
COSTELLO   WILLIAM   20   1859   JAN   EMPIRE QUEEN

OUTWARD
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/23913084-F7F0-11E9-AE98-937946DDB654?image=135
COSTELLO   WILLIAM   31   HYDRA   1861   SEP   OTAGO   7

ANASTA(T/C/S)IA (Ballypatrick Townland, Carrick-on-Suir, bapt. 19 March 1836 - arrived Melbourne November 1864) = 28 years
INWARD
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/3B2A1B13-F96C-11E9-AE98-E568AC77A6FB?image=219
COSTELLO   ANASTASIA   18   1864   NOV   CHAMPION OF THE SEAS   OUTRIDGE JAMES M


Cheeers
GPC

[ruffell place]

A better post on the Marriage and Baptism Records - ie Zoomable versions
======================

Registers - Searchable and zoomable images - URL Addresses

COSTELLO Catherine and Michael - married 25 July 1833
Microfilm 02456 / 02
Carrick-on-Suir; County of Tipperary; Diocese of Waterford and Lismore.
Marriages 08 Jan. 1826 to 03 Feb. 1845
91 images
Top address (ZOOMABLE)
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632155
Direct Page Address
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632155-031


"Guliu{?}lnius" = WILLIAM - 7 June 1834 - Baptised
Microfilm 02456 / 03 | Page 7
Carrick-on-Suir; County of Tipperary; Diocese of Waterford and Lismore. Baptisms, 7 April 1834 to 21 July 1845
226 images
Top Address (ZOOMABLE)
https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000632156
Direct page address (March 1834 - July 1836)
https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000632156_007

"Anastacia"  - 19 March 1836 - Baptised
Microfilm 02456 / 03 | Page 41
Carrick-on-Suir; County of Tipperary; Diocese of Waterford and Lismore. Baptisms, 7 April 1834 to 21 July 1845
Top Address (ZOOMABLE)
https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000632156
Direct page address (Mar. 1836 to Apr. 1836)
https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000632156_041

Johanna - 1 May 1838 - Baptised
Microfilm 02456 / 03 | Page 86
Carrick-on-Suir; County of Tipperary; Diocese of Waterford and Lismore. Baptisms, 7 April 1834 to 21 July 1845
Top Address (ZOOMABLE)
https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000632156
Direct page address ( Apr. 1838 to May 1838)
https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000632156_086


I couldn't find any listings January 1840 - January 1841
But have some more time coming up.....!


Michael - baptised  8?  January 1840
Microfilm 02461 / 04
St. Mary's, Clonmel, Diocese of Waterford and Lismore | Counties of Waterford, Tipperary - Baptisms18 July 1832 to 28 Dec. 1842
118 images
Top address (ZOOMABLE
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632164
Direct Page Address
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632164-095
============================================
Re Register availabity

https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/1102
St. Mary's, Clonmel, Diocese of Waterford and Lismore | Counties of Waterford, Tipperary
Microfilm 02461 / 01
Baptisms04 Feb. 1790 to 26 Dec. 1790
Baptisms03 Feb. 1793 to 31 Dec. 1793
BaptismsJan. 1794 to Dec. 1794
Baptisms11 Jan. 1795 to 28 Mar. 1797
59 images
Vtls000632160 001

Microfilm 02461 / 02
Baptisms05 Apr. 1797 to 05 Aug. 1823
255 images
Vtls000632161 001

Microfilm 02462 / 02
Marriages24 Apr. 1797 to 10 Feb. 1836
85 images
Vtls000632162 001

Microfilm 02461 / 03
Baptisms05 Aug. 1823 to 17 July 1832
162 images
Vtls000632163 001

Microfilm 02461 / 04
Baptisms18 July 1832 to 28 Dec. 1842
118 images
Vtls000632164 001

Microfilm 02462 / 01
Baptisms01 Jan. 1843 to 07 Jan. 1864
136 images
Vtls000632165 001

Microfilm 02460 / 05
Baptisms01 Jan. 1864 to 20 Sep. 1878
155 images


https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/1101
Carrick-on-Suir
Diocese of Waterford and Lismore | County of Tipperary

Microfilm 02455 / 04
Baptisms12 Sep. 1784 to 30 Sep. 1787
Baptisms31 May 1805 to 29 Dec. 1805
Baptisms03 Jan. 1806 to 02 July 1819
Baptisms03 Jan. 1823 to 10 Oct. 1826
Marriages10 Jan. 1806 to 07 Feb. 1815
Marriages07 Jan. 1823 to 14 Oct. 1825
262 images
Vtls000632153 001

Microfilm 02456 / 01
Baptisms02 Jan. 1788 to 24 Apr. 1803
Marriages07 Jan. 1788 to 24 Feb. 1805
285 images
Vtls000632154 001

Microfilm 02456 / 02
Marriages08 Jan. 1826 to 03 Feb. 1845
91 images
Vtls000632155 001

Microfilm 02456 / 03
Baptisms07 Apr. 1834 to 21 July 1845
266 images
Vtls000632156 001

Microfilm 02457 / 02
Marriages30 Jan. 1845 to 22 Feb. 1881
113 images
Vtls000632157 001

Microfilm 02456 / 04
Baptisms07 Apr. 1845 to 23 Dec. 1864
259 images
Vtls000632158 001

Microfilm 02457 / 01
Baptisms28 Dec. 1869 to 26 Jan. 1881
139 images

[ruffell place]

Image , edited to size - from Ancestry - see earlier listing
COSTELLO Michael (b. 1840 - New Zealand, d. ?) CLONMEL Goal - 1852 July 25
another to follow