Author Topic: Help searching for French wives  (Read 1352 times)

Offline goldie61

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Help searching for French wives
« on: Saturday 20 November 21 21:21 GMT (UK) »
Thanks to a 463 million addition of French records on My Heritage recently, I have been able to break down a brick wall of 40 years for my 5x great grandfather, and trace him back another four generations, which has been amazing.
Unfortunately, all the spouses of these men  have not been so easy.
They would seem to be just as shadowy as many women in English records, and French spelling is just as variable as English spelling when it comes to a scribe writing down what he thinks he has heard.

They are:
1.  Marie Catherine Danhier/Danhiez.  At her marriage in 1767, she is said to be 33 years old.  Her father was André Danhier. Unfortunately her mother’s name is unreadable in the parish register of  Montreuil sur mer, Pas de Calais, Haute France.
I have a transcript of the Montreuil bmds, and the name Danhier only appears that once. It sounds as if they did not come from this town.
2. Anne Giraudot/Geradot. There is a dispensation for her marriage 1735, where she is given as being 15 years old. Her father was Charles Giraudot, and her mother Anne Marie Duvivier. This dispensation was at a court in Paris, and the family may have been from there, in which case this may be a lost cause, as most Paris records were destroyed in a fire in the late 1800s. I do know Anne Marie Duvivier was born back in Montreuil sur mer in 1689.
3. Marie Marguerite Rabbatté. She married in 1714  in Montreuil. There are no ages or parents names given in the register. A Jean Rabaté signs as a witness.
Marie’s sister Jeanne Catherine, married in 1716, and in her marriage record it says her father was Jean Rabatté, and her mother Catherine Lamie.
There are just a handful of ‘Rabatté’ names in the Montreuil transcription list, none earlier than Marie Marguerite’s marriage in 1714, so again, it looks as though the family were not from here.

I can’t find anything on My Heritage that fits for these women.
The other site that has a lot of French records is geneanet.org.
This site allows you to search for free, but tantalizingly many records, including any 'soundex' variations of spelling of names, are then only viewable on Premium subscription.
Would there be anyone with a Premium subscription who could have a quick look for these women, to see if it is worth my while paying a subscription to get at any pertinent records?
I would be very grateful for any assistance in trying to track down these women.
Thank you.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Online manukarik

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Re: Help searching for French wives
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 20 November 21 23:25 GMT (UK) »
Will have a look tomorrow, as just off to bed. Quick reply to make it easier for me to find your post tomorrow.
Clarkson, Tolladay, Prevost, Killick, Hicks

Online manukarik

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Re: Help searching for French wives
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 21 November 21 10:59 GMT (UK) »
This is going to be some hunt! For this period the entries will be in Parish registers and are not indexed. As you feel the families moved, this will be a lot of work trawling through Parish Registers for many different parishes.  There are a lot of different Danhier entries coming up for different towns or communes in the Nord département as well as the French speaking part of Belgium. The dates mostly don't seem to match though.

I will keep an eye out, but this will probably be a very long job!
Clarkson, Tolladay, Prevost, Killick, Hicks

Offline goldie61

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Re: Help searching for French wives
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 21 November 21 20:06 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for looking at this manukarik.
It sounds as though there are no obvious leads to these women, and as you say, it will be a huge job, which I am not expecting you to try and undertake! Please don't spend any time on it. I'm sure you have  better things to do!
As I have waited 40 years to find the lead in figure in these French records, and have found 4 more generations back from him, I am perfectly happy with those discoveries.
No doubt more records will be indexed and put on line in the future, and these missing wives will come to light.
Many thanks for looking anyway.

Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs


Offline jayaygee

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Re: Help searching for French wives
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 21 November 21 23:02 GMT (UK) »
Looking again at the index to the Montreuil-sur-mer parish registers, I noticed the burial of Jean Baptiste RABATE on 28 July 1731 and the indication "invalide".  This led me to search the Hôtel des Invalides database and I found Jean Rabaté.  If you search here with just the name Rabaté, up he comes:

http://www.hoteldesinvalides.org/format_liste.php

A possible lead.  And it may be a coincidence that Marie Marguerite BERTOLLE, fille de Claude et Marie Marguertie née Rabaté also married a soldier...or not.  More food for thought.
BDF Twigg, Ellingham, Gates
BKM Bilbey, Collins, Brandon, Norwood, Smith
HAM Holloway (Romsey area)
HRT Brooks (Tring area)
LDN Saunders, Beedle
MDX Saunders
MLN Maitland, Robertson, McGlashan(all Edinburgh)
OXF Morby, Cross, Gardner (all Banbury area)
SAL Jones, Mathews, Higginson, Davies, Gobourn, Blount
WAR Pritchard (Birmingham)
WRY Dickinson, Atkinson, Mellon, Pritchard, Ashforth, Helliwell, Hague, Dungworth (all Sheffield area)

Offline goldie61

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Re: Help searching for French wives
« Reply #5 on: Monday 22 November 21 00:42 GMT (UK) »
That's fantastic jayaygee!
What a find!
What a font of information.

As ever, it throws up more questions of course. Sorry.

So the date he was received at the Hotel des Invalides was 23 June 1691. I guess that was because of his injury.  At age 28, he must have been born about 1663. I had estimated his daughter Marie Marguerite to be born about 1690/95, so maybe he married after he left the hospital.
Then he is taken in again in 1713? or just left the army at that date? - by which time he would have been 50 years old.

Do you know what 'At the Detachment' at Montreuil means? By 1731 he would have been 68 years old. Surely not still in the army 'on detachment'. He must have had his family with him. Marie Marguerite married Claude in 1714 in Montreuil, and the godmother of their first child in 1714 was Jeanne Catherine Beauregard.

His name is given as Jean Rabate dit Beauregard from the Hotel des Invalides database, which solves a big mystery.
The baptism of Marie Jeanne Bertolle in 1714, gives the father as Claude and the mother as Marie Beauregard! I couldn't see why this name was given in the register. Now that's cleared up.
I'm surmising the 'dit' is like 'otherwise known as' (even on the translated page of the Hotel des Invalides into English, it still just says 'dit').
So would Beauregard have been his mother's name perhaps?

Many thanks indeed for finding this jayaygee
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline goldie61

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Re: Help searching for French wives
« Reply #6 on: Monday 22 November 21 08:40 GMT (UK) »
I have looked during the day at the registers for Fieulaine as being given as where Jean Baptiste Rabate came from.
As his daughter Marie Marguerite was married in 1714, I checked, frame by frame, between 1685 and 1700. It must be a very small places, some years there were only half a dozen pages for the whole year. I couldn't see any trace of any Rabate or Beauregard names.
I see there are a large number of churches in St Quentin - the big town a few miles away.
That may have to wait for another day (or lockdown!).

From the baptisms of Claude Bertolle and Marie Margueritte Rabate's children it looks as though Marie Marguerite had two or three sisters. All in the Montreuil registers.
Antoinette Rabatté signs the baptism of Antoinette Francoise Bertolle 1720.
Francoise Antoinette Rabaté signs the baptism of Charles Francois Bertolle in 1717.
Marie Jeanne Bertolle was baptised 1714, father Claude, mother Marie Beauregard. Godmother Jeanne Catherine Beauregard.

There are no parents mentioned in the marriage of Marie Marguerite in 1714, although a Jean Rabate signs the register.
Francoisse Antoinette married in 1723. Her mother is given as Catherine Lamie.
Jeanne Catherine married in 1716. Her father given as Jean Rabatte, and her mother as Catherine Lamie.

Bingo!
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline jayaygee

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Re: Help searching for French wives
« Reply #7 on: Monday 22 November 21 14:38 GMT (UK) »
I'm no expert on military records, but I agree he left the army in 1713. I don't know if he returned to the Invalides in Paris - it sounds as if he might have done, but then went to Montreuil. I do know that "au détachement" means that he was an out-pensioner of the Invalides just like a lot of Chelsea Pensioners in the UK.  There might be a little more information in the military archives in Vincennes, though I know there isn't a lot on ordinary soldiers.

"Beauregard" would be his nom de guerre (dictionary translation of "nom de guerre"!), but why he chose it I don't know. Anyway it seems to be tying things together, so I'm glad it's of help.
BDF Twigg, Ellingham, Gates
BKM Bilbey, Collins, Brandon, Norwood, Smith
HAM Holloway (Romsey area)
HRT Brooks (Tring area)
LDN Saunders, Beedle
MDX Saunders
MLN Maitland, Robertson, McGlashan(all Edinburgh)
OXF Morby, Cross, Gardner (all Banbury area)
SAL Jones, Mathews, Higginson, Davies, Gobourn, Blount
WAR Pritchard (Birmingham)
WRY Dickinson, Atkinson, Mellon, Pritchard, Ashforth, Helliwell, Hague, Dungworth (all Sheffield area)

Offline jayaygee

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Re: Help searching for French wives
« Reply #8 on: Monday 22 November 21 17:06 GMT (UK) »
Thanks to Généabank, I have found reference to a marriage of Anthoine RABATTE of Fieulaine at Montigny-en-Arrouaise on 28 February 1691.  He is the son of another Anthoine and Marie BRAUSSAR? (the transcriber's question mark).  Unfortunately, there don't appear to be others of the name in the early Fieulaine registers as you found.
BDF Twigg, Ellingham, Gates
BKM Bilbey, Collins, Brandon, Norwood, Smith
HAM Holloway (Romsey area)
HRT Brooks (Tring area)
LDN Saunders, Beedle
MDX Saunders
MLN Maitland, Robertson, McGlashan(all Edinburgh)
OXF Morby, Cross, Gardner (all Banbury area)
SAL Jones, Mathews, Higginson, Davies, Gobourn, Blount
WAR Pritchard (Birmingham)
WRY Dickinson, Atkinson, Mellon, Pritchard, Ashforth, Helliwell, Hague, Dungworth (all Sheffield area)