Author Topic: Potential missing twin  (Read 417 times)

Offline mrcakey

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Potential missing twin
« on: Monday 22 November 21 11:07 GMT (UK) »
I just received a birth cert for my 2 x great grandfather Thomas Collinge (b. 12/5/1854).

The time of his birth is written. I thought this meant that it was a multiple birth, but I can't find any other births that would match in the GRO index (name Collinge, mother's name Greenwood).

If the other birth(s) were still-born, would they not be registered?
Houghton - Lancashire, inc. Manchester
Robertson - Angus
Collinge - Yorkshire, Lancashire, USA
Nedderman - Lancashire
Lane/Fryer - Kent

Offline nanny jan

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Re: Potential missing twin
« Reply #1 on: Monday 22 November 21 11:19 GMT (UK) »
Still-births  were not registered.
Howard , Viney , Kingsman, Pain/e, Rainer/ Rayner, Barham, George, Wakeling (Catherine), Vicary (Frederick)   all LDN area/suburbs  Ottley/ MDX,
Henman/ KNT   Gandy/LDN before 1830  Burgess/LDN
Barham/SFK   Rainer/CAN (Toronto) Gillians/CAN  Sturgeon/CAN (Vancouver)
Bailey/LDN Page/KNT   Paling/WA (var)



All census look-ups are crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online jim1

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Re: Potential missing twin
« Reply #2 on: Monday 22 November 21 11:22 GMT (UK) »
Usually with twins it will state that & give time of birth.
This doesn't say either, it gives a time of 3h. 35 mins. then what looks like A at 6.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/


Offline nanny jan

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Re: Potential missing twin
« Reply #3 on: Monday 22 November 21 11:41 GMT (UK) »
Usually with twins it will state that & give time of birth.
This doesn't say either, it gives a time of 3h. 35 mins. then what looks like A at 6.

Could it be 3.35am?
Howard , Viney , Kingsman, Pain/e, Rainer/ Rayner, Barham, George, Wakeling (Catherine), Vicary (Frederick)   all LDN area/suburbs  Ottley/ MDX,
Henman/ KNT   Gandy/LDN before 1830  Burgess/LDN
Barham/SFK   Rainer/CAN (Toronto) Gillians/CAN  Sturgeon/CAN (Vancouver)
Bailey/LDN Page/KNT   Paling/WA (var)



All census look-ups are crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline mrcakey

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Re: Potential missing twin
« Reply #4 on: Monday 22 November 21 11:46 GMT (UK) »
Still-births  were not registered.

Thanks Nanny Jan.
Houghton - Lancashire, inc. Manchester
Robertson - Angus
Collinge - Yorkshire, Lancashire, USA
Nedderman - Lancashire
Lane/Fryer - Kent

Offline chris_49

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Re: Potential missing twin
« Reply #5 on: Monday 22 November 21 13:49 GMT (UK) »
Are twins always given a time of birth? I ask because my father's cousin Catherine Ann Jones was registered in Sept quarter 1919 (born 26th June) in the small Knockin sub-district in Shropshire, and there was another Jones-Morris birth on the very same page (FreeBMD) in Knockin (ShropshireBMD). I know the names are common but it would still seem to be a big coincidence if they weren't twins.

Yet a mutual cousin insists that they cannot be twins since there's no time of birth on Katie's certificate (and also because Marjorie has no middle name, but I don't think that's relevant). What, though, if the twins were born on different days? (Say either side of midnight, we know babies can choose to arrive at difficult times).

Marjorie is not on the 1939 with Katie and her parents, but that's not immaterial because there's another sister Margaret there in Grimpo that year, and we had no idea about her existence at all, even though she seems to have lived to 1988 (comparing 1939 and death birthdates). I can't find Marjorie's death before 1939, nor in that register (knowing her birth day almost exactly helps) but she may have married.

The presumed twins born 1914 Knockin may be to the same parents - one is named Llewelyn after his Dad? - but they cannot be found 1939, possibly in the armed services).
Skelcey (Skelsey Skelcy Skeley Shelsey Kelcy Skelcher) - Warks, Yorks, Lancs <br />Hancox - Warks<br />Green - Warks<br />Draper - Warks<br />Lynes - Warks<br />Hudson - Warks<br />Morris - Denbs Mont Salop <br />Davies - Cheshire, North Wales<br />Fellowes - Cheshire, Denbighshire<br />Owens - Cheshire/North Wales<br />Hicks - Cornwall<br />Lloyd and Jones (Mont)<br />Rhys/Rees (Mont)

Offline chris_49

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Re: Potential missing twin
« Reply #6 on: Monday 22 November 21 13:51 GMT (UK) »
This isn't so urgent that I'm unable to wait to find the family on the 1921
Skelcey (Skelsey Skelcy Skeley Shelsey Kelcy Skelcher) - Warks, Yorks, Lancs <br />Hancox - Warks<br />Green - Warks<br />Draper - Warks<br />Lynes - Warks<br />Hudson - Warks<br />Morris - Denbs Mont Salop <br />Davies - Cheshire, North Wales<br />Fellowes - Cheshire, Denbighshire<br />Owens - Cheshire/North Wales<br />Hicks - Cornwall<br />Lloyd and Jones (Mont)<br />Rhys/Rees (Mont)

Online AntonyMMM

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Re: Potential missing twin
« Reply #7 on: Monday 22 November 21 14:06 GMT (UK) »
Are twins always given a time of birth?

For a multiple "live" birth times should be shown.

Yet a mutual cousin insists that they cannot be twins since there's no time of birth on Katie's certificate

Is this a full certificate, or a short one ( and have you seen it ?)

What, though, if the twins were born on different days? (Say either side of midnight, we know babies can choose to arrive at difficult times).

That would make no difference - times should still be shown.

But Jones/Morris are common names so it could be a coincidence and you shouldn't make any assumptions form the index entries - you need to get certificates to be sure.




As an interesting note, I'm currently looking at a case of twins who were born in different registration districts  - that confuses things !


Offline chris_49

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Re: Potential missing twin
« Reply #8 on: Monday 22 November 21 16:24 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Antony. The cousin (who I trust) has bought the cert - I'll ask her for a scan. I can't imagine why she would buy a short-form one. I'll wait for the 1921 since there are 5 in the family I need to check.
Skelcey (Skelsey Skelcy Skeley Shelsey Kelcy Skelcher) - Warks, Yorks, Lancs <br />Hancox - Warks<br />Green - Warks<br />Draper - Warks<br />Lynes - Warks<br />Hudson - Warks<br />Morris - Denbs Mont Salop <br />Davies - Cheshire, North Wales<br />Fellowes - Cheshire, Denbighshire<br />Owens - Cheshire/North Wales<br />Hicks - Cornwall<br />Lloyd and Jones (Mont)<br />Rhys/Rees (Mont)