Author Topic: Seeking Info On James Dalgarno Who Married Margaret Ramsay @ Old Deer 24/09/1784  (Read 2444 times)

Offline Alan of Kaslo

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Re: Seeking Info On James Dalgarno Who Married Margaret Ramsay @ Old Deer 24/09/1784
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 30 November 21 19:51 GMT (UK) »
Well... I dug a little deeper and got myself even more confused. I was searching for John Dalgarno and I came upon a WT page that says:

https://bit.ly/3I1oBPj

Quote
Biography

William was born about 1727.

He married Margaret Sangster at New Deer on 18 Jan 1757 [1]

He died in 1819 and was buried at Longside 30 Mar 1819 John Dalgarno of N Kinmundy, widower of Margaret Sangster age 92 [2]


Notes

William uses the name 'John' Dalgarno on his marriage record to Margaret Sangster and is buried as 'John' Dalgarno. He is 'William' Dalgarno on the baptism records of his children. It is not clear which was his given name at birth.
 

It lists his son as James that was born 08/11/1757

Quote
James Dalgarno
Born 8 Nov 1757 in Old Deer, Aberdeenshire, Scotlandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Son of William Dalgarno and Margaret (Sangster) Dalgarno
Brother of Margaret (Dalgarno) Keith, Marjory (Dalgarno) Low and George Dalgarno   
Husband of Margaret (Gall) Dalgarno — married about 1780 in Scotlandmap
Husband of Jane (Taylor) Dalgarno — married 25 Oct 1788 in Strichen, Aberdeenshire, Scotlandmap
Father of Mary Dalgarno
Died 5 Jan 1845 in Slains, Aberdeenshire, Scotlandmap

Once again he does not marry our Margaret Ramsay 24/09/1784

Quote
DALGARNO
   
JAMES
MARGT. RAMSAY/
24/09/1784
228/
20 331
Old Deer

So that should mean there is a death of a Margaret Dalgarno/Gall between 1780 and 1784. I find it off that they would be so detailed but then leave out Margaret Ramsay ...Of course with my luck there was a Margaret Dalgarno who died 31/10/1784 Old Deer and a Margaret Gall that died 02/05/1784 at Rayne. The Margret D one is after the marriage date of 24/09/1784. Could he have married Margaret Ramsay 4 months after death of Margaret Gall? hmmmm

The thing is that my grandfather James Dalgarno was clearly born in 1787 to James D and Margaret Ramsay. He was born 15/11/1787 and the wiki page says that James married Jane Taylor 25 Oct 1788.

The only female d*l*g*r*n* listed as dying between 1787 and 1788 was a Christian who died 22/07/1788 at Longside...

Any thoughts Forfarian ?    ??? ;D

PS: There was also that William d*l*g*r*n* who had a son James in New Deer 1759...

Quote
DALGARDEN
   
JAMES
   
WILLIAM DALGARDEN/
M
20/04/1759
225/
20 129
New Deer

I'll have to compare that to this birth (dusts off credit card)

Quote
DALGARDON
   
MARGARET
   
WILLIAM DALGARDON/MARGARET SANGSTER
   
F
16/04/1758
225/
20 124
New Dee

Then compare both to James Dalgarno born to John and Margaret Ramsay..


Stewart. Scott. Bruce. McPherson. McMurray. McKibbin . McKay. McCann. Mckrinkine. McClewnan. McCallum. Joss. Ross. Morrison. Chapman. Middlemiss. Robinson. Conlon. Duffy. Dalgarno. Crookshank. Gammack. Ramsay. Mutch. Crawford. Orr. Galbraith. Kerr. Fergusson. Campbell.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Seeking Info On James Dalgarno Who Married Margaret Ramsay @ Old Deer 24/09/1784
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 30 November 21 21:14 GMT (UK) »
Hmm. That does look strange - John vs William ???

Noting that the baptism in 1757 to William D and Margaret S was in Old Deer, and the three to John D and Margaret S were in New Deer, I hate to have to say it but I don't think you can rule out there being two Margaret Sangsters, one married to John in 1757 and the other married to William. The alternative is that John decided to call himself William while he was in New Deer. Either of those options looks a bit odd.

There are no baptisms of children to James D and Margaret Gall after Mary in 1781, so it is possible that either your James D who married Margaret Ramsay or the other James D who married Jean Taylor was Margaret Gall's widower (or even the one who married Helen Hay). You'd need to see if Mary's baptism gives her father's occupation, and compare that to what you already have.

I notice that James D and Margaret Ramsay named children May and George, and that William D and Margaret Sangster had a George and a Marjory. May and Marjory are used interchangeably, so that looks potentially interesting.

However WT says that John/William's son James married Jane/Jean Taylor, and we know that Jane/Jean Taylor's husband can't also be Margaret Ramsay's husband.

What places and occupations are associated with which of the baptisms?

I see that WT has a death for Mary in 1827 in 'Aberdeenshire' (no parish mentioned - instantly suspicious) which is not matched by either the deaths/burials on Scotland's People, or the ANESFHS MI index. Also that the source of this is given as Ancestry.com. Therefore it is not to be trusted.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Alan of Kaslo

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Re: Seeking Info On James Dalgarno Who Married Margaret Ramsay @ Old Deer 24/09/1784
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 30 November 21 23:03 GMT (UK) »
I notice there are quite a few Margaret Sangsters around...even the same year of birth...

Margaret Sangster

JOHN SANGSTER/JANNET PIRIE  06/09/1737 Old Deer

There is also:

Margaret Sangster

WILLIAM SANGSTER/ELISABETH SINCLARI 07/06/1737 Old Deer

Then of course there are several other MS's about in years close and towns nearby.

PS:  I see the name Ian Cruikshank referenced across many of the sites as the purveyor the info about Wiliam/John Dalgarno and Margaret Sangster. On tthe DNA side of ancestry I see that I am DNA-related to relatives of siblings of my grandmother Margaret Dalgarno (James jr's daughter). They have Sangster and Ramsay in their ancestry trees... but I have no DNA relation to Ian Cruikshank... even through my Cruikshank side ... (james Dalgarno jr. married Sophia Cr**kshank*). It seems like a major clue if Ian Cruikshank shares his DNA relation to Wiliam/John Dalgarno and Margaret Sangster ...but yet there is no DNA in common between myself and Ian C...








Stewart. Scott. Bruce. McPherson. McMurray. McKibbin . McKay. McCann. Mckrinkine. McClewnan. McCallum. Joss. Ross. Morrison. Chapman. Middlemiss. Robinson. Conlon. Duffy. Dalgarno. Crookshank. Gammack. Ramsay. Mutch. Crawford. Orr. Galbraith. Kerr. Fergusson. Campbell.

Offline Alan of Kaslo

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Re: Seeking Info On James Dalgarno Who Married Margaret Ramsay @ Old Deer 24/09/1784
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 01 December 21 05:03 GMT (UK) »
Quote
DALGARDON
   
MARGARET
   
WILLIAM DALGARDON/MARGARET SANGSTER
   
F
16/04/1758
225/
20 124
New Deer

Living in Little ___ (something)
Stewart. Scott. Bruce. McPherson. McMurray. McKibbin . McKay. McCann. Mckrinkine. McClewnan. McCallum. Joss. Ross. Morrison. Chapman. Middlemiss. Robinson. Conlon. Duffy. Dalgarno. Crookshank. Gammack. Ramsay. Mutch. Crawford. Orr. Galbraith. Kerr. Fergusson. Campbell.


Offline Alan of Kaslo

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Re: Seeking Info On James Dalgarno Who Married Margaret Ramsay @ Old Deer 24/09/1784
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 01 December 21 05:10 GMT (UK) »
John and Margaret should be living in Clochan at the time...

Stewart. Scott. Bruce. McPherson. McMurray. McKibbin . McKay. McCann. Mckrinkine. McClewnan. McCallum. Joss. Ross. Morrison. Chapman. Middlemiss. Robinson. Conlon. Duffy. Dalgarno. Crookshank. Gammack. Ramsay. Mutch. Crawford. Orr. Galbraith. Kerr. Fergusson. Campbell.

Offline Alan of Kaslo

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Re: Seeking Info On James Dalgarno Who Married Margaret Ramsay @ Old Deer 24/09/1784
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 01 December 21 05:12 GMT (UK) »
I got the doc for the alternate Margaret Sangster 1737 Old Deer... and she's from Clochan

Quote
SANGSTER
   
MARGARET
   
WILLIAM SANGSTER/ELISABETH SINCLARI
   
F
   
07/06/1737
   
228/
   
10 10
   
Old Deer
Stewart. Scott. Bruce. McPherson. McMurray. McKibbin . McKay. McCann. Mckrinkine. McClewnan. McCallum. Joss. Ross. Morrison. Chapman. Middlemiss. Robinson. Conlon. Duffy. Dalgarno. Crookshank. Gammack. Ramsay. Mutch. Crawford. Orr. Galbraith. Kerr. Fergusson. Campbell.

Offline Alan of Kaslo

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Re: Seeking Info On James Dalgarno Who Married Margaret Ramsay @ Old Deer 24/09/1784
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 01 December 21 06:01 GMT (UK) »
I'm dumping these documents here and we can go through the various locations and witnesses in some of them.


Quote
DALGARDNO
   
GEORGE
   
WILLIAM DALGARDNO/MARGARET SANGSTER
   
M
   
08/11/1765
225/
20 175
New Deer


Stewart. Scott. Bruce. McPherson. McMurray. McKibbin . McKay. McCann. Mckrinkine. McClewnan. McCallum. Joss. Ross. Morrison. Chapman. Middlemiss. Robinson. Conlon. Duffy. Dalgarno. Crookshank. Gammack. Ramsay. Mutch. Crawford. Orr. Galbraith. Kerr. Fergusson. Campbell.

Offline Alan of Kaslo

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Re: Seeking Info On James Dalgarno Who Married Margaret Ramsay @ Old Deer 24/09/1784
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday 01 December 21 06:04 GMT (UK) »
Quote
DALGARDINE
   
MARJORY
   
WILLIAM DALGARDINE/MARGARET SANGSTER
   
F
02/06/1763
225/
20 152
New Deer

Stewart. Scott. Bruce. McPherson. McMurray. McKibbin . McKay. McCann. Mckrinkine. McClewnan. McCallum. Joss. Ross. Morrison. Chapman. Middlemiss. Robinson. Conlon. Duffy. Dalgarno. Crookshank. Gammack. Ramsay. Mutch. Crawford. Orr. Galbraith. Kerr. Fergusson. Campbell.

Offline Alan of Kaslo

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Re: Seeking Info On James Dalgarno Who Married Margaret Ramsay @ Old Deer 24/09/1784
« Reply #35 on: Thursday 02 December 21 02:16 GMT (UK) »
I think I might be on to something ...  ;D

Earlier I showed the doc of Margaret Dalgarno born to William and Margaret Sangster

Link: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=855836.msg7243246#msg7243246

At the time William Dalgarno and family lived at Little Aucheoch... (thank you RC dechiper team!)
Map: https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=14&lat=57.54634&lon=-2.13066&layers=3&b=1

So anyhow they had a son named James Dalgarno in 20/04/1759 also at Little Aucheoch ,New Deer (doc attached). Later they go on to have other children like Marjory and George in Griecyhill (thank you deciphering team!).

My question:

How is possible that James Dalgarno was born to John Dalgarno and Margaret Sangster 11/8/1757 Clochan and then a different James Dalgarno was born 20/04/1759 to William and MS... but yet dozens of sites and trees claim that the 1757 James is actually born to William Dalgarno and that William is the same person as John ???  They can't lay claim to both James D's...

Does this not prove that James 1757 from John has different parents then James 1759 from William? I can't see how William Dalgarno is the father of both (and both mothers are named Margaret Sangster but they are not the same person). I feel like i've got it but I can't convince myself i'm right, quite yet...

Am I on to something ?



   
Stewart. Scott. Bruce. McPherson. McMurray. McKibbin . McKay. McCann. Mckrinkine. McClewnan. McCallum. Joss. Ross. Morrison. Chapman. Middlemiss. Robinson. Conlon. Duffy. Dalgarno. Crookshank. Gammack. Ramsay. Mutch. Crawford. Orr. Galbraith. Kerr. Fergusson. Campbell.