Author Topic: roman catholic marriage dispensations  (Read 427 times)

Offline riannisuileabhain

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roman catholic marriage dispensations
« on: Tuesday 30 November 21 01:04 GMT (UK) »
if marriage dispensations were not given on grounds of consanguinity, is there any other reasons why it may have been given? my ancestors were married in 1895 and in the "denunciations" column is written the word "disp", which i can only assume is short for dispensation. other columns in this record have things like "disp 3x3" which i know is a dispensation for couples being semi-related.

so again my question is, would there have been many other reasons for dispensations? would the bride being pregnant be one? thanks!

i attached a picture for context

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: roman catholic marriage dispensations
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 30 November 21 01:36 GMT (UK) »
Related thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=855752.0
I wrote another reply to that thread last week but I lost it.

Several reasons for dispensations; some were mentioned on the other thread. It was I who suggested that a pregnancy might have been a reason for dispensing with the requirement to read banns on 3 Sundays. That would have been for the purpose of hastening a marriage to avoid scandal.
You should be able to find other threads on the topic of dispensations by selecting the "Search" tab at the top of this page and putting dispensation as a search term. I've contributed to some and they may have links to sources of further information.
An article "Catholic Marriage Dispensations" mentions dispensation for banns. The marriages on this were in Canada.
www.ottawavalleyirish.com/2011/08/marital-dispensations.html

Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: roman catholic marriage dispensations
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 30 November 21 02:17 GMT (UK) »
A marriage register for Carlow Town 1870s has many dispensations noted. Last column on opposite page has explanations for some e.g. that the couple being married were "Vagi", people who moved around and weren't residents of the parish. You may need to ask the handwriting deciphering board for help reading and translating some words. This was posted in connection with another enquiry.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634430#page/25/mode/1up
See other pages in the register for more examples.  There seems to have been several couple marrying who were from  other parishes an even other counties.
Cowban


Offline Wexflyer

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Re: roman catholic marriage dispensations
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 30 November 21 02:18 GMT (UK) »
There are multiple reasons why a dispensation might be necessary (they still exist)
Consanguinity - Too close a blood relationship
Time - Marriage during a prohibited period, such as Lent and Advent
Place - Marriage in other than the bride's parish.
Religion - One party not Catholic.

Note that pregnancy is NOT, as such, a reason to require a dispensation. It could be a motivator behind the marriage, and a motivator to grant a dispensation, if needed, but not a reason to need a dispensation in the first place.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Ballygarrett; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Monadurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex

Offline riannisuileabhain

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Re: roman catholic marriage dispensations
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 30 November 21 02:42 GMT (UK) »
There are multiple reasons why a dispensation might be necessary (they still exist)
Consanguinity - Too close a blood relationship
Time - Marriage during a prohibited period, such as Lent and Advent
Place - Marriage in other than the bride's parish.
Religion - One party not Catholic.

Note that pregnancy is NOT, as such, a reason to require a dispensation. It could be a motivator behind the marriage, of course.


although the bride herself was catholic, her father was not, -her mother was a catholic and they married in a registry office - could this be a reason or no? throughout census forms her father continues to show his religion as COI while his wife and children are catholic

Offline riannisuileabhain

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Re: roman catholic marriage dispensations
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 30 November 21 02:46 GMT (UK) »
Related thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=855752.0
I wrote another reply to that thread last week but I lost it.

Several reasons for dispensations; some were mentioned on the other thread. It was I who suggested that a pregnancy might have been a reason for dispensing with the requirement to read banns on 3 Sundays. That would have been for the purpose of hastening a marriage to avoid scandal.
You should be able to find other threads on the topic of dispensations by selecting the "Search" tab at the top of this page and putting dispensation as a search term. I've contributed to some and they may have links to sources of further information.
An article "Catholic Marriage Dispensations" mentions dispensation for banns. The marriages on this were in Canada.
www.ottawavalleyirish.com/2011/08/marital-dispensations.html


thanks for all your help. this marriage is different to the one in the other post but they married in a similar area. was just wondering what a dispensation could mean in this context because as far as i am aware neither the bride or groom are related in any way, and the marriage hadnít taken place in any catholic holidays .

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: roman catholic marriage dispensations
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 30 November 21 03:03 GMT (UK) »
Related thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=855752.0
I wrote another reply to that thread last week but I lost it.

Several reasons for dispensations; some were mentioned on the other thread. It was I who suggested that a pregnancy might have been a reason for dispensing with the requirement to read banns on 3 Sundays. That would have been for the purpose of hastening a marriage to avoid scandal.
You should be able to find other threads on the topic of dispensations by selecting the "Search" tab at the top of this page and putting dispensation as a search term. I've contributed to some and they may have links to sources of further information.
An article "Catholic Marriage Dispensations" mentions dispensation for banns. The marriages on this were in Canada.
www.ottawavalleyirish.com/2011/08/marital-dispensations.html


thanks for all your help. this marriage is different to the one in the other post but they married in a similar area. was just wondering what a dispensation could mean in this context because as far as i am aware neither the bride or groom are related in any way, and the marriage hadnít taken place in any catholic holidays .

You know all four grandparents for both parties?

You know what her home parish was?

When exactly was the marriage?
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Ballygarrett; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Monadurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex

Offline riannisuileabhain

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Re: roman catholic marriage dispensations
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 30 November 21 03:07 GMT (UK) »
Related thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=855752.0
I wrote another reply to that thread last week but I lost it.

Several reasons for dispensations; some were mentioned on the other thread. It was I who suggested that a pregnancy might have been a reason for dispensing with the requirement to read banns on 3 Sundays. That would have been for the purpose of hastening a marriage to avoid scandal.
You should be able to find other threads on the topic of dispensations by selecting the "Search" tab at the top of this page and putting dispensation as a search term. I've contributed to some and they may have links to sources of further information.
An article "Catholic Marriage Dispensations" mentions dispensation for banns. The marriages on this were in Canada.
www.ottawavalleyirish.com/2011/08/marital-dispensations.html


thanks for all your help. this marriage is different to the one in the other post but they married in a similar area. was just wondering what a dispensation could mean in this context because as far as i am aware neither the bride or groom are related in any way, and the marriage hadnít taken place in any catholic holidays .

You know all four grandparents for both parties?

You know what her home parish was?

When exactly was the marriage?


yes i know all 4 grandparents for both parties , no matching surnames. the brideís parish was also the grooms parish , the marriage took place on 13 July 1895.

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: roman catholic marriage dispensations
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 30 November 21 03:13 GMT (UK) »
Related thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=855752.0
I wrote another reply to that thread last week but I lost it.

Several reasons for dispensations; some were mentioned on the other thread. It was I who suggested that a pregnancy might have been a reason for dispensing with the requirement to read banns on 3 Sundays. That would have been for the purpose of hastening a marriage to avoid scandal.
You should be able to find other threads on the topic of dispensations by selecting the "Search" tab at the top of this page and putting dispensation as a search term. I've contributed to some and they may have links to sources of further information.
An article "Catholic Marriage Dispensations" mentions dispensation for banns. The marriages on this were in Canada.
www.ottawavalleyirish.com/2011/08/marital-dispensations.html


thanks for all your help. this marriage is different to the one in the other post but they married in a similar area. was just wondering what a dispensation could mean in this context because as far as i am aware neither the bride or groom are related in any way, and the marriage hadnít taken place in any catholic holidays .

You know all four grandparents for both parties?

You know what her home parish was?

When exactly was the marriage?


yes i know all 4 grandparents for both parties , no matching surnames. the brideís parish was also the grooms parish , the marriage took place on 13 July 1895.

But was the parish where they were married the brides's parish?

Was the priest who performed the marriage a priest of the parish?

Could they be 3rd cousins?

I think the most likely possibility is that the dispensation is one of those in time - in particular that for insufficient notice.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Ballygarrett; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Monadurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex