Author Topic: James and Mary Holland married 1872 Manchester. Can't find James anywhere!  (Read 646 times)

Offline RoyG

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James and Mary Holland married 1872 Manchester. Can't find James anywhere!
« on: Thursday 02 December 21 14:49 GMT (UK) »
I'm researching my family tree and have James Holland marrying a Mary Diggles in 1872 in Manchester. Mary was married to John Diggles but was originally Mary Worsley. My Great Grandfather Alfred has James and Mary mentioned in birth records as being his parents. Alfred's birth certificate (1874) mentions his father as being Charles Holland. I can't find any Charles Holland having an Alfred in any birth records from 1872 to 1876. I'm assuming the registrar got the name wrong. A search for James doesn't come up with any suggestions as they seem to have disappeared from the census after their marriage in 1872. Alfred only appears living with Mary's aunt when he was 6 (1891 census). 1901 he is missing as are James and Mary. Mary died in 1909 according to grave records. Any help with finding James pre marriage or after would be gratefully received as I'm a bit stuck.

Offline CaroleW

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Re: James and Mary Holland married 1872 Manchester. Can't find James anywhere!
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 02 December 21 15:25 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat

They married 23.5.1872 at St John's Manchester

The marriage cert shows James as 29 occ Porter father also James occ Mason
Mary is also 29 - widow - father Richard Worsley whose occ was also Mason

1871 census has Mary living with her mother Ann Worsley.  She is 30 & b Cheadle Cheshire - and shown as married?
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Offline CaroleW

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Re: James and Mary Holland married 1872 Manchester. Can't find James anywhere!
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 02 December 21 16:01 GMT (UK) »
Can you clarify

Quote
My Great Grandfather Alfred has James and Mary mentioned in birth records as being his parents. Alfred's birth certificate (1874) mentions his father as being Charles Holland

What occupation is shown for James/Charles on Alfred's birth cert

There is no death for a John Diggles.  The Diggles/Worsley marriage was 1862 and a son Richard John was born & died 1863

The 1862 marriage cert shows John was aged 25 - occ spinner - father Thomas Occ spinner
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Offline CaroleW

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Re: James and Mary Holland married 1872 Manchester. Can't find James anywhere!
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 02 December 21 16:18 GMT (UK) »
Interesting - the 1862 marriage cert shows John Diggles as a bachelor - as does the 1861 census when he is living with parents.

25.12.1858 marriage of John Diggles 22 occ spinner father Thomas occ spinner - spouse Mary Bickerstaff aged 20

No death for Mary except one in 1860 in Chorley aged 18?  Mary Bickerstaff is aged 3 on the 1841 census

Was the 1872 marriage bigamous??
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Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline heywood

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Re: James and Mary Holland married 1872 Manchester. Can't find James anywhere!
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 02 December 21 16:20 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat  :)
You write:
Alfred only appears living with Mary's aunt when he was 6 (1891 census)


I can see 1881 3929/121/26
Where there is Alfred with the Quayle household. Is this him?
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Offline RoyG

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Re: James and Mary Holland married 1872 Manchester. Can't find James anywhere!
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 02 December 21 17:48 GMT (UK) »
Hi! New to RootsChat so please bear with me. Carole W - thanks for the reply. Alfred's aunt was Lydia Quayle who is Mary's sister. Also found the Mary Bickerstaff link but as she's not directly linked with Mary I haven't researched her too much. I just assumed she had died. I'm not sure about why Mary is on the 1871 census and at her mother's house because of this. There are lots of strange discrepancies that are making the search harder than it should be. Thanks for looking though.
Heywood - Thanks for the reply. Yes Alfred was living with his aunt Lydia who was Mary's sister.

How do you PM with the chats?

Offline heywood

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Re: James and Mary Holland married 1872 Manchester. Can't find James anywhere!
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 02 December 21 19:57 GMT (UK) »
Just to be clear.
Where do you have James after 1881?
Do you not have Mary after 1871 until her death in 1909?
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Offline RoyG

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Re: James and Mary Holland married 1872 Manchester. Can't find James anywhere!
« Reply #7 on: Friday 03 December 21 09:16 GMT (UK) »
Good morning Heywood! Thanks for your msg. The problem with both James and Mary is that I am not able to -
1. Find James after Alfred is born in any records. Plus I am having difficulty finding him before. I am assuming he was born in 1843 based on him being married at age 29 in 1872. But finding a James as his father in records isn't giving me any solid leads.
2. Mary exists in my records in 1871 living with her mother Ann Worsley. In 1881 and 1891 there is a Mary Worsley living with an Ann Worsley in Dukinfield. But I am not sure this is the right Ann and Mary as there is another Ann Worsley from that area. Also Mary's ages on the census don't add up. Mary is registered as a widow on the marriage record so I am assuming her husband John Diggles had died but yet again I can find no record of a John Diggles dying pre 1872 other than a 1868 one but his residence doesn't quite match.
Hope this clarifies the problem. Cheers

Alfred's birth certificate mentions a Charles Holland being his father but I am assuming this is a mistake as all the other records don't corroborate this.

Offline heywood

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Re: James and Mary Holland married 1872 Manchester. Can't find James anywhere!
« Reply #8 on: Friday 03 December 21 10:05 GMT (UK) »
Thank you.
Sorry - more clarification needed.

Where and when does James Alfred turn up after 1881 when he is with his aunt?

Who was the informant for Mary’s death and where was she living?

That is not the right Worsley family in Dukinfield.
Going back to 1851 census, there are entries for Richard (Heather on marriage record) and Ann Worsley at 2221/122/26 and also Ann Worsley and family in Dukinfield.

Mary seems to have retained the Holland name to her death.

*amended - wrong name posted
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