Author Topic: James and Mary Holland married 1872 Manchester. Can't find James anywhere!  (Read 645 times)

Offline Pheno

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Re: James and Mary Holland married 1872 Manchester. Can't find James anywhere!
« Reply #9 on: Friday 03 December 21 10:18 GMT (UK) »

How do you PM with the chats?

You need to have made at least a couple of posts before PM system is open to you.

Then, under your name at the side of your post you will see a green A4 paper icon with writing on it.  Just click on that.

Pheno
Austin/Austen - Sussex & London
Bond - Berkshire & London
Bishop - Sussex & Kent
Holland - Essex
Nevitt - Cheshire & Staffordshire
Wray - Yorkshire

Offline jonw65

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Re: James and Mary Holland married 1872 Manchester. Can't find James anywhere!
« Reply #10 on: Friday 03 December 21 10:22 GMT (UK) »
Baptism, 7 May 1876, Manchester Cathedral
Alfred, son of James + Mary Holland
born 6th. Nov 1874
abode Hulme
father a Carter
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YSN9-SJN1

Marriage, 30 May 1898, St. Philip Hulme
Alfred Holland, 23, Bachelor, Porter, 26 Fawcett St. Holme, father Charles Holland, Carter
+
Elizabeth Ann Derbyshire, 21, Spinster, 14 Fawcett St. Hulme, father George Derbyshire, Sawyer

Witnesses Albert Edward Salter, Elizabeth Birch

Offline RoyG

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Re: James and Mary Holland married 1872 Manchester. Can't find James anywhere!
« Reply #11 on: Friday 03 December 21 10:36 GMT (UK) »
It's not James who is living with his aunt but his son Alfred. After Alfred is born in 1874 I am struggling to find any reference to James and Mary living together in any census. As I said before the 1881 and 1891 census return that mentions Mary and her mother Ann Worsley might not be correct.
I know Mary died in 1909 based on the gravestone in Find a Grave. It mentions Ann Worsley, Mary Holland and Lydia Quayle with a few other members of the family being buried in the same grave. The grave states Mary Holland died 29/11/1909.

Jonw65 - Thanks for the reply. Yes that corresponds to the details I have.

Pheno - thanks for reply. I now have a button to PM that appeared today!

Thanks to everyone who has replied. I wasn't expecting such a quick reply to my query.


Offline Dundee

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Re: James and Mary Holland married 1872 Manchester. Can't find James anywhere!
« Reply #12 on: Friday 03 December 21 11:12 GMT (UK) »
Alfred's birth certificate (1874) mentions his father as being Charles Holland.

Do you mean his marriage certificate (father named as Charles HOLLAND, occ. carter) or is that name on his birth certificate as well?

Debra  :D

Offline RoyG

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Re: James and Mary Holland married 1872 Manchester. Can't find James anywhere!
« Reply #13 on: Friday 03 December 21 13:28 GMT (UK) »
Hi Dundee. Thanks for msg. Alfred Holland has James on the church records etc as being his father. I have confirmed this is correct by looking into Mary, his mother, who definitely married a James. Unfortunately, his birth certificate mentions Charles as being his father. This is also mentioned in his marriage certificate when he married Mary. There is no record that I can find of a Mary Diggles marrying a Charles Holland nor a Charles having a son born 6th Nov 1874. So I am assuming this is a mistake and that the Charles on the marriage cert is only there because its on the birth certificate. I know Alfred Holland was born on the 6th Nov 1874 as its on the 1939 register where he's living with his wife Elizabeth and two of their children. The parish records for Manchester, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1901 (Cathedral) and Manchester, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1915 have James and Mary as his parents and mention Mary Diggles specifically as his mother.

Offline RoyG

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Re: James and Mary Holland married 1872 Manchester. Can't find James anywhere!
« Reply #14 on: Friday 03 December 21 14:23 GMT (UK) »
Think I found a John Diggles who died in 1865 -
Name
    John Richard Diggles
Registration Quarter
    Apr-May-Jun
Death Registration Place
    Chorlton, Lancashire, United Kingdom
Death Date
    Jun 1865
Inferred Death Place
    Lancashire, United Kingdom
Volume
    8c
Page
    443

Offline heywood

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Re: James and Mary Holland married 1872 Manchester. Can't find James anywhere!
« Reply #15 on: Friday 03 December 21 15:47 GMT (UK) »
Sorry about the wrong name. I have amended it.

The 1865 death you posted is a 1 yr old child.
This is a good site for checking ages at death and also mother’s maiden names in births. You need to sign in but it is free

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp

I can’t see a birth for the child but there is a baptism:
August 28th 1864, Parish church Eccles
John Richard born October 2nd 1863
Parents John and Mary . The residence is Hulme and John is a Cotton Spinner.
Is that your family?
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Offline johnhood

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Re: James and Mary Holland married 1872 Manchester. Can't find James anywhere!
« Reply #16 on: Friday 03 December 21 17:28 GMT (UK) »
Is this the possible birth of John Richard Diggles

DIGGLES, RICHARD  JOHN     mmn  WORSLEY 
GRO Reference: 1863  D Quarter in CHORLTON  Volume 08C  Page 583

Not sure about a newspaper article dated 8th Juy 1865 Lancaster Gazette.

March 20th, John Diggles, for wilful murder, executed behind the Castle and his body given to the surgeons for dissection.

Cannot find a death that would fit though.

John
HOOD- STAFFORDSHIRE/LONDON/AUSTRALIA
WALKER-LONDON
HIGGS-LONDON
GOSLING-DEVON

Offline heywood

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Re: James and Mary Holland married 1872 Manchester. Can't find James anywhere!
« Reply #17 on: Friday 03 December 21 17:38 GMT (UK) »
Thanks John. I looked for John Richard rather than the other way  ::)
I thought it would be the right family.

There are other mentions of ‘John Diggles’. I can only see snippets.
1877 - another murder reference with William Wood
1892 - perhaps a query re John Diggles who left Salford twenty five years ago  for New Zealand
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk