Help needed to find Mother of Mary Ann Hargreaves

[bettyespana]

There's a Mary burial in 1859 age 51

FindMyPast Parish Burials (image/census)
Died 5 Oct 1859, inflammation, Mary Hargreaves, 6 Thomason Place, Ordsall Lane, Salford, buried Oct 9th, age 51

Thank you so much for this information

[rosie99]

Sorry I have deleted that baptism,  I got sidetracked and was looking for the wrong person 

[bettyespana]

Sorry I have deleted that baptism,  I got sidetracked and was looking for the wrong person 

Thats OK rosie,Not to worry!

[Annette7]

Have spent quite some time on this this afternoon - mainly because I was finding it difficult to point the relevant people after Robert Moss' death in 1884.

First off, I noted that when Robert and wife baptised their 3 children in 1883, wife's name is given as Mary Hannah (not Mary Ann) which could be why I was having problems finding family after his death.

Been toing and froing between umpteen sites to try and confirm things and discovered that Robert's wife married again as: Mary Hannah Moss, 32, widow, dau. of John Hargreaves, dec'd, Mechanic to Michael Cavan on 13/9/1890 St. Bartholomew, Salford.

Then checked baptisms and found Mary Hannah Hargreaves bp.23/11/1856 St. Philip, Salford, dau. of John Hargreaves, mechanic and Hannah.  (There was also a baptism 30/9/1855, same details, so don't know if an error somewhere or same person baptised twice.).   John and Hannah had 2 older children baptised 9/10/1853 same place - Elizabeth Ann and John Henry.

Checked births to find Hannah's maiden name which was Barlow.

John Hargreaves, mechanic, son of John Hargreaves, mechanic, married Hannah Barlow, dau. of Mark Barlow, on Cathedral Manchester on 4/2/1850.

Looks like John died in 1856 and on 5/7/1857 Manchester, his widow Hannah married a John Stewart.   They were in Hulme 1861 with Elizabeth A Hargreaves 9, John Henry Hargreaves 8 and Mary Hannah shown as Hannah M. 5.   

So although married Robert Moss as Mary Ann Hargreaves she was actually Mary Hannah Hargreaves, dau. of John Hargreaves, mechanic and Hannah, nee Barlow.

Annette

[bettyespana]

Have spent quite some time on this this afternoon - mainly because I was finding it difficult to point the relevant people after Robert Moss' death in 1884.

First off, I noted that when Robert and wife baptised their 3 children in 1883, wife's name is given as Mary Hannah (not Mary Ann) which could be why I was having problems finding family after his death.

Been toing and froing between umpteen sites to try and confirm things and discovered that Robert's wife married again as: Mary Hannah Moss, 32, widow, dau. of John Hargreaves, dec'd, Mechanic to Michael Cavan on 13/9/1890 St. Bartholomew, Salford.

Then checked baptisms and found Mary Hannah Hargreaves bp.23/11/1856 St. Philip, Salford, dau. of John Hargreaves, mechanic and Hannah.  (There was also a baptism 30/9/1855, same details, so don't know if an error somewhere or same person baptised twice.).   John and Hannah had 2 older children baptised 9/10/1853 same place - Elizabeth Ann and John Henry.

Checked births to find Hannah's maiden name which was Barlow.

John Hargreaves, mechanic, son of John Hargreaves, mechanic, married Hannah Barlow, dau. of Mark Barlow, on Cathedral Manchester on 4/2/1850.

Looks like John died in 1856 and on 5/7/1857 Manchester, his widow Hannah married a John Stewart.   They were in Hulme 1861 with Elizabeth A Hargreaves 9, John Henry Hargreaves 8 and Mary Hannah shown as Hannah M. 5.   

So although married Robert Moss as Mary Ann Hargreaves she was actually Mary Hannah Hargreaves, dau. of John Hargreaves, mechanic and Hannah, nee Barlow.

Annette

Gosh Annette thats an awful lot you have found out & I am very grateful.Thank you to everyone who has been working on this too all day.I will study the details & introduce any corrections I should need to.Hopefully this will bring the searches into this family to an end.
Thank you once again.

[Maiden Stone]

Baptism: 11 Sep 1858 Cathedral Church of St John the Evangelist, Salford, Lancashire, England
Sarah Argrave - filia Joannis Argrave & Mariae (formerly Leaver)
    Born: 1847
    Abode: Tomilson pl., Warrel's Blgs.
    Notes: Conditionate

Looks possible although the Cathedral Church at Salford is Roman Catholic.Mary Ann & Charles were Baptised Cof E & also MaryAnn married in St Bartholomews where Baptised.I am rather confused.

Sarah's baptism was a conditional one, meaning she'd probably already been previously baptised but she got done again just to be sure. She was 11 at the time so the decision to have her received into the Catholic church must have been taken by a parent or guardian. So sometime between 1st April 1855 when Mary Ann and Charles were baptised at St. Bartholomew C. of E. and September 1858, a parent or guardian of Sarah decided she should be Catholic.
The Catholic Church in England didn't require Catholics to marry in a Catholic church in the 19th century. It recognised as valid a marriage according to the civil law of the land. My own 2xGGF who belonged to an ancient Catholic family in Lancashire and whose cousin was a diocesan Vicar-General (bishop's deputy whose position included ruling on marriages), married his 2nd wife in a non-conformist chapel in 1879.  Parents of his first wife, both of whom were R.C. married in C. of E. parish church in Preston in 1843, although there were 2 R.C. churches in the town.       

[bettyespana]

Baptism: 11 Sep 1858 Cathedral Church of St John the Evangelist, Salford, Lancashire, England
Sarah Argrave - filia Joannis Argrave & Mariae (formerly Leaver)
    Born: 1847
    Abode: Tomilson pl., Warrel's Blgs.
    Notes: Conditionate

Looks possible although the Cathedral Church at Salford is Roman Catholic.Mary Ann & Charles were Baptised Cof E & also MaryAnn married in St Bartholomews where Baptised.I am rather confused.

Sarah's baptism was a conditional one, meaning she'd probably already been previously baptised but she got done again just to be sure. She was 11 at the time so the decision to have her received into the Catholic church must have been taken by a parent or guardian. So sometime between 1st April 1855 when Mary Ann and Charles were baptised at St. Bartholomew C. of E. and September 1858, a parent or guardian of Sarah decided she should be Catholic.
The Catholic Church in England didn't require Catholics to marry in a Catholic church in the 19th century. It recognised as valid a marriage according to the civil law of the land. My own 2xGGF who belonged to an ancient Catholic family in Lancashire and whose cousin was a diocesan Vicar-General (bishop's deputy whose position included ruling on marriages), married his 2nd wife in a non-conformist chapel in 1879.  Parents of his first wife, both of whom were R.C. married in C. of E. parish church in Preston in 1843, although there were 2 R.C. churches in the town.     

Thank you sincerely for explaining this to me. It does make things a lot clearer to me now.

[Maiden Stone]

Then checked baptisms and found Mary Hannah Hargreaves bp.23/11/1856 St. Philip, Salford

Transcribed as HEARGREAVES on LANOPC.

Mary Hannah Hargreaves birth registration 1855 Salford Greengate.

[bettyespana]

Have spent quite some time on this this afternoon - mainly because I was finding it difficult to point the relevant people after Robert Moss' death in 1884.

First off, I noted that when Robert and wife baptised their 3 children in 1883, wife's name is given as Mary Hannah (not Mary Ann) which could be why I was having problems finding family after his death.

Been toing and froing between umpteen sites to try and confirm things and discovered that Robert's wife married again as: Mary Hannah Moss, 32, widow, dau. of John Hargreaves, dec'd, Mechanic to Michael Cavan on 13/9/1890 St. Bartholomew, Salford.

Then checked baptisms and found Mary Hannah Hargreaves bp.23/11/1856 St. Philip, Salford, dau. of John Hargreaves, mechanic and Hannah.  (There was also a baptism 30/9/1855, same details, so don't know if an error somewhere or same person baptised twice.).   John and Hannah had 2 older children baptised 9/10/1853 same place - Elizabeth Ann and John Henry.

Checked births to find Hannah's maiden name which was Barlow.

John Hargreaves, mechanic, son of John Hargreaves, mechanic, married Hannah Barlow, dau. of Mark Barlow, on Cathedral Manchester on 4/2/1850.

Looks like John died in 1856 and on 5/7/1857 Manchester, his widow Hannah married a John Stewart.   They were in Hulme 1861 with Elizabeth A Hargreaves 9, John Henry Hargreaves 8 and Mary Hannah shown as Hannah M. 5.   

So although married Robert Moss as Mary Ann Hargreaves she was actually Mary Hannah Hargreaves, dau. of John Hargreaves, mechanic and Hannah, nee Barlow.

Annette

Thank you Maid Stone I got Mary Hannah Hargreaves birth at St.Philips amongst the details she sent as above.I didn't have the place of registration although I am not surprised that it was Greengate.