Author Topic: Margaret Jamieson  (Read 1139 times)

Offline doolittle72

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Re: Margaret Jamieson
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 11 December 21 11:04 GMT (UK) »
I thank you all for your insight and input.
We are looking at two different girls here:
In 1861 census in Hamilton Margaret is 15 years of age and is living with her mother and stepfather.  In the other 1861 census in Ayrshire Mary (who is probably her sister) is lodging with Mary Ann Laird.
I will keep trying SP for a baptism for Margaret around 1845ish as they both seem to say Wishaw as place of birth.
Since Robert must have died for Mary to have wed in Hamilton in 1853 I have been looking for his death but not yet found anything. I have looked at mining accidents since he was born in 1817 and therefore quite young.
Once again thenk you all.
Doolittle

Offline Neale1961

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Re: Margaret Jamieson
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 12 December 21 05:28 GMT (UK) »
Yes, I do realise that we are looking at 2 different girls, but they are sisters (assuming the information you have given about Margaret Jamieson is correct).  Looking at records for one sister may lead to more information about the other, and the family in general.

When I saw that 3 of Mary McMahon’s children born to John Clark were baptised in the Catholic church at Hamilton, it was the place to look for the births of her other daughters.  It would seem that Mary McMahon was probably Catholic. There is no birth record for Margaret – it may have been lost, or never made or recorded. However, looking at the catholic baptism record for Mary Jamieson may give you further information about the parents. There are a number of records to look at should you wish to follow the line of investigation further.

I don’t think you can assume the Mary McMahon was married to Robert Jamieson.  It is just as possible that the 2 girls were illegitimate.

I have been looking at a Robert JAMIESON, coal miner born about 1817 in Donegal Ireland (age varies a lot in the census). There is only one man of this name who is a coal miner that I can find in the Lanarkshire census records.
From the 1851 census to 1881 census he is recorded working as a coal miner, living in Lanarkshire - Cambuslang & Hamilton Farm Row, Rutherglen.

Robert married Margaret SIMPSON in Cadder, Lanarkshire in Oct 1842. Margaret was living there in 1841 census. She was born about 1824 Ireland, & she died 1894. No sign of Robert in 1841.
Although married in 1842, their first child was not born until 1849. One wonders why children were not born earlier? Were the couple not together, or was there another woman (Mary McMahon) in the picture?
Also interesting to note that three subsequent children were born in Ayrshire, even though the family was living in Lanarkshire. The family appear to be Presbyterian.
Children:
•   James JAMIESON abt 1849 Rutherglen
•   William John JAMIESON 1853 Kilwinning, Ayrshire
•   Andrew JAMIESON 5 Aug 1856 Kilwinning
•   Agnes JAMIESON 16 June 1859 Kilwinning
•   Ellen SIMPSON (‘adopted’) 1860
•   Margaret JAMIESON 11 July 1861 Cambuslang

Husband and wife are living apart in the 1881 census.

Robert JAMIESON died in Silverbanks, Cambuslang on 2 June 1888.  Son William was informant. Robert’s father is recorded as John JAMIESON. No name given for mother. 
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland)

Offline doolittle72

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Re: Margaret Jamieson
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 12 December 21 18:57 GMT (UK) »
Margaret herself seems unsure od her facts because on her marriage in 1869 she stated her father was Robert Jamieson a labourer deceased and her mother was Mary Jamieson maiden name Rodger.
On her death certificate her father is given as Robert Jamieson, coal miner deceased and her mother as Mary Clark previously Jamieson maiden name McMachan.
On the 1881 Census Mary Clark is living with her son Thomas and his wife in Glasgow.
Robert Jamieson was the son of Robert Jamieson and Margaret Rodger who were married in 1816 and their son Robert born in 1817.  All in Gorbals, Glasgow
I will endeavour to find more information.
Doolittle

Offline Neale1961

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Re: Margaret Jamieson
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 12 December 21 20:22 GMT (UK) »
Robert Jamieson was the son of Robert Jamieson and Margaret Rodger who were married in 1816 and their son Robert born in 1817.  All in Gorbals, Glasgow
Where does this information come from? You have not provided it before.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland)


Offline doolittle72

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Re: Margaret Jamieson
« Reply #22 on: Sunday 12 December 21 22:19 GMT (UK) »
I have the record of Robert's baptism also his brother John who was baptised in 1821 all in Gorbals where the marriage was in 1816.
I agree that Mary was probably Catholic but Robert may not have been.
I searched for Mary Jamieson in the 1871 census and found her in Neilston but not with any of the Lairds however she had someone of interest with her viz Ella Clark who was born in Hamilton.  I cannot fit her into Mary Clark's family as she was born in 1857.
Mary Jamieson married a John Connelly who was a widower in 1887 stating she was a widow?  Her witness was Annie Clark who was her half-sister.  If Mary was a widow why would she have been married under her maiden name?
Do these people really know who they are?
Doolittle

Offline Neale1961

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Re: Margaret Jamieson
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 12 December 21 23:51 GMT (UK) »
I have the record of Robert's baptism also his brother John who was baptised in 1821 all in Gorbals where the marriage was in 1816.

 You may have a baptism for a Robert Jamieson, but why do you presume he is the father of Margaret and Mary? What documentation do you have for that? Where is he in the census? It seems you have picked any Robert at random?
There are 47 baptisms recorded for “Robert Jamieson” in Scotland between 1815 and 1825, many more will not have baptisms recorded. You don’t know if your Robert Jamieson was born in Scotland or when, so add on all those men born earlier than 1815, and all those Robert Jamiesons born in England and Ireland. You have many score to choose from.
What you do have is his name and occupation – a coal miner. Mary Jamieson married twice (1878 and in 1887, a Catholic marriage), and on both marriage records, she is consistent with the information about both parents.

Mary Jamieson married a John Connelly who was a widower in 1887 stating she was a widow?  Her witness was Annie Clark who was her half-sister.  If Mary was a widow why would she have been married under her maiden name? Do these people really know who they are?

In Scotland the woman retains her maiden name after marriage,  and reverts to that as a widow, so it is normal for a woman to be recorded with her maiden name on a second marriage (as is the case with Mary). You are correct, a witness at her second marriage is Annie Clark a step-sister.


I searched for Mary Jamieson in the 1871 census and found her in Neilston but not with any of the Lairds however she had someone of interest with her viz Ella Clark who was born in Hamilton.  I cannot fit her into Mary Clark's family as she was born in 1857.
In the 1871 census Mary Jamieson is boarding with a number of other young women, all employed as bleachers. Also there is Eliza Clark (not Ella). This is her step-sister Elizabeth Clark –  baptised 1856 in Catholic church, Hamilton - daughter of Mary McMahon.
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5b91a537f4040b176c8ced66/mary-jamieson-1871-renfrewshire-neilston-1849-?locale=en
(Note - beware the numerous errors on Ancestry transcriptions)
This is the same census address for Mary McMahon Clark in 1891 census.

* In reply #9 and #13, there were requests for ALL information from Margaret’s marriage certificate (including witness names).  Are you able to provide this?

* Do you have the death certificate for Mary McMahon Clark, 1895 Neilston? Mothers maiden name is given as Brannon. On SP her death is indexed under both her maiden name AND her married name, as normal. :)

* What information do you get from Mary Jamieson’s Catholic baptism record?
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland)

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Margaret Jamieson
« Reply #24 on: Monday 13 December 21 04:50 GMT (UK) »
You have good information that would be useful to a forum.

Can you please list all the information on the HAMILTON-JAMIESON marriage certificate , 1869.

Can you please list all the information on the death certificate for Mary CLARK, 1883.

Can you identify John HAMILTON and Margaret on the Census 1871.

Can you identify this family, 1881, so that I can find them.....what address?
"1881 Census Mary Clark is living with her son Thomas and his wife in Glasgow."

At my reply #14, CLARK family, Census 1861....where are these people at Census 1871?

Offline Neale1961

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Re: Margaret Jamieson
« Reply #25 on: Monday 13 December 21 06:22 GMT (UK) »
These census transcriptions are taken from Ancestry. Warning - There are transcription errors.

1861 census 22 New Wynd, Hamilton, Lanarkshire Rego no. 647, Schedule 166
•   John Clark 54 Head, born Ireland, Labourer- drainer
•   Mary Clark 35 wife born Ireland
•   Joseph Clark 16, born Hamilton, coal miner
•   Margaret Jamieson 15 Stepdaughter, born Wishaw, Lace Tambourer
•   Owen Clark 7 son born Hamilton
•   Elizabeth Clark 5 daughter born Hamilton
•   Thomas Clark 3 son born Hamilton
•   Ann Clark 10 months daughter born Hamilton

1871 census 6 Russells Row, Dalziel, Lanarkshire Rego no. 639, Schedule 56
•   John Clark 65 Head, born Ireland, Pit Labourer
•   Mary Clark 45 wife born Ireland
•   Ann Cark 12 daughter, born Hamilton
•   Thomas Clark 3 son, born Hamilton

1881 census Neilston Registration Number: 572/1; schedule 296
•   Mary Clark 60 Bleachfield Worker, born Ireland
•   Elizabeth Clark 23 daughter, born Hamilton
•   Annie Cark 21 daughter, born Hamilton
•   Thomas Clark 14 grd-son, born Hamilton
•   Ellen Johnston 22 Boarder

1891 census Holehouse, Neilston. Registration Number: 572/1; schedule 116
•    Mary Clark Head 60 , born Ireland
•   Ann Clark daughter 28 Bleachfield Worker, born Hamilton
•   Thomas Clark grd-son 23 born Hamilton Fireman (Pit)
•   Nellie McCafferty 26 boarder Bleachfield Worker
•   Hugh Mulrane 4 boarder
•   John O’Brien 12 Orphan
•   Daniel O-Brien 10 orphan

Mary Clark did not die in 1883, because she is in 1891 census. That 1883 death cert is not correct. It was in Milton and the family were never living there.
You need the correct death certificate from 1895 mentioned in my above post.


Can you please list all the information on the death certificate for Mary CLARK, 1883.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland)

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Margaret Jamieson
« Reply #26 on: Monday 13 December 21 07:02 GMT (UK) »


Thank you for the Census information. I am looking at other households, same address, and anything in newspapers. Address are useful for this.