Author Topic: Imperial Yeomanry Record  (Read 445 times)

Offline andrewp91

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Re: Imperial Yeomanry Record
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 11 December 21 03:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi Hillhurst, thank you so much for your detailed look.

What you have found there is my 3x great Grandfather. He did sign up to the Imperial Yeomanry. E.Smith is his mother.

There was a rumour he went to Canada, so never been able to locate his death. However recently I have found a Canada CEF record, like Username; Milliepede did for a George Alfred Smith.

I feel like there are a lot of coincidences between ‘George’ and Alfred T Smith. Such as height, chest and chest expansion, eye and hair colour. They also share the same birth date and birth place. They also both married a Bessie. So I am wondering if maybe they could be the same person as Alfred’s real name was Alfred Graham Smith. He took the name Temple from his Great Grabdmother whom other people in the family started to use. So he became known as either Alfred Graham Smith or Alfred Temple Smith and some times Alfred Graham Temple Smith.

My Alfred was a very troubled man, often putting himself in situations where he wouldn’t need to be such as stealing and causing a bad name to his respective parents. He also did not provide very much for his dependents and was charged with neglect of them. After 1911 he vanished from all records. However I know he stayed upon til atleast 1913 when my 2x Great grandfather was born in 1914.

He vanished from sight, however in 1947, one of his children went to Canada and according to the border crossing in New York, he was to visits his father “Temple-Smith”. This is the only other information I have about Alfred.

This makes me think he was using a different name, so upon checking the CEF Papers I stumbled across a George Alfred Smith whom shared the above information, he also stated in question 10 when asked did you serve in any other military group he put “Yes 2 and half years Imp Yeomanry”.

So I am trying to look for a Imperial Yeomanry record for a George Alfred Smith to either prove that they are two completely different people or whether or not they are two separate people. George states in the CEF papers that he is born 4 March 1873 in Southampton, Hampshire.

What I did find was that in 1914 an George A Smith married a Bessie in Southampton. This could be the George A Smith whom is in the 1881 census also living in Southampton with his mother Sarah and father George. Or it could be my Alfred using a different name whom again married another woman called Bessie. I have purchased this marriage certificate to see if it shed any light.

Sorry if this seems very confusing. The link Mcka489 supplied might be benefial to read also as that is my topic in the Canada forum asking for any information of my Alfred Smith , non has been very successful. Until this protection lead.
Related thread

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=675848.0

Offline Hillhurst

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Re: Imperial Yeomanry Record
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 11 December 21 06:06 GMT (UK) »
Some key take-aways from the CEF WW1 Personnel file for George A Smith --

Death: September 26, 1964 in Canada.

His family history: "Mother, Father, 9 brothers and sisters, all alive and well. One daughter suffers from epileptic fits". [My note: not sure if this means GAS's daughter or one of his sisters].

Occupation prior to enlistment: Marine Engineer, Farmer. Wife's age is 36. Two children: ages 13 and 5.

May 1916: One page has the General PO, Folkstone address crossed out and replaced with:
"c/o Mr A.S. Burville, Calthorpe, 8 Richmond Street, Cheriton, England". [There's an Arthur Stockwell Burville (age 27) residing at 8 Richmond Road, Cheriton in the 1911 Census].

GAS was previously awarded the "Egyptian Medal and 2 South African medals". [My note: I presume the Egypt Medal was awarded for service during military actions involving the Royal Navy during the 1882 Anglo-Egyptian War and in the Sudan between 1884 and 1889].

Other notes: "Was once a champion middle-weight athlete in channel [unknown word]" and "Was kicked in the abdomen by a horse in the SA war". [This injury appears to still cause him problems circa 1915/16].

1916: Medical Board found him to be suffering from Neurasthenia (due to service), and over age - 46 years of age. On examination nothing abnormal is found except his decayed teeth.

It was also noted that he suffered a head injury circa 1892 which left him unconscious. [This injury appears to still cause him problems circa 1915/16].

Summary: Do you feel the details above confirm this chap is also Alfred Graham Temple Smith?
Particularly having 9 brothers and sisters; and being a champion middle-weight athlete?

Does the Burville chap mean anything to you? Something for you to follow-up, to sort out what the connection was c1916.




Offline Hillhurst

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Re: Imperial Yeomanry Record
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 12 December 21 00:56 GMT (UK) »
Andrew - have you seen this 1909 newspaper report? Is it your chap? I presume it is, given he's a fitter (engineer) plus the Bedfordshire connection. What was he doing in Prescot? Sorry, I'm unable to view the entire report.

Bedfordshire Mercury
24 September 1909 - page 7
"Alfred Temple Smith, fitter, of Prescot, Lancashire, pleaded guilty to neglecting to maintain his wife and children, and leaving them chargeable to the common fund of the Bedford Union on August 28th. He pleaded Mr. Moyes. Relieving Officer ..."

Bedfordshire, England, Petty Sessions, 1854-1915
Name:   Alfred Temple Smith
Court Date:   18 Sep 1909
Court Place:   Bedford, Bedfordshire, England
Court:   Bedford Borough Court

Looks like wife Bessie was charged with not sending her child to school.

Bedfordshire, England, Petty Sessions, 1854-1915
Name:   Bessie Temple Smith
Court Date:   28 Oct 1901
Court Place:   Bedford, Bedfordshire, England
Court:   Bedford Borough Court


Offline Hillhurst

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Re: Imperial Yeomanry Record
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 12 December 21 01:18 GMT (UK) »
Yet another newspaper report...

Luton Reporter
30 March 1914 - pages 2, 3
"Mrs. Bessie Temple Smith, the wife of an engineer, residing at 7, Alfred-Street, gave evidence of seeing the clock on Monday on the mantel in the bedroom which the defendants occupied... "

Offline andrewp91

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Re: Imperial Yeomanry Record
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 14 December 21 11:55 GMT (UK) »
Okay, First I want to thank you deeply for the time that you have taken to note all this down and the time you took to help me understand and search for him. I genuinely mean it.

Upon reading your summary of 'George' I do believe that they are two different people and that a name change did not happen (in this case), regarding Alfred and George.

The information that I deemed very difficult to read just does not match Alfred in the slightest. For instance, where you mention his family history. Alfred was one of 9 siblings, however, would he have included himself in that? I don't believe he would have. However, that alone would not have
caused me to stop looking at him. You then mention how the record states how he had Epeletic fits, nothing to my acknowledgment that I have found on records or newspaper articles show Alfred to be suffering from these. We move on to his occupation, Alfred was not a Farmer. He always put himself down as an Engineer. My Bessie would have been 43, not 36, and by 1914, Alfred had 5 children with her.
I have no known record or newspaper related to Alfred becoming a champion in an athletic sport. The name Mr A.S Burville also has no indication in my family tree that he is the husband or child of his daughters or siblings.

So as you can imagine, I highly doubt George and Alfred to be the same person although they do share very canny things such as description, date of birth and place of birth, along with they both married a Bessie. haha.

I really thought I was on to something there! I am really gutted I was not able to go further with this! But maybe at a later date, everything might come clear.

Regarding the newspaper articles, you do have my 3x Great Grandfather. He did abandon his family, he seemed to have had trouble with drinking. In the newspaper clipping you are referring to in the Bedfordshire Mercury 24 September 1909, he seemed to have been 'seeking work'. I have attached a picture below for you to see.

Once again thank you so much for the effort you put into this. It was really appperticated!


Offline Hillhurst

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Re: Imperial Yeomanry Record
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 14 December 21 18:18 GMT (UK) »
I should have asked you earlier: What is your chap's DoB? Is it the same day as the fellow in Canada?

Whilst the CEF Personnel record does mention "epileptic fits" the physicians (?) examining him note there is no evidence of epilepsy, etc. He complains of a variety of aches and pains.
Wouldn't he have been up front about his "epilepsy" when he joined up in 1915? He wasn't exactly a spring chicken at the time. It's all very odd.  ???

I searched for GAS and wife Bessie in the 1916 and 1921 Canadian census, but no luck yet. It's like they're a mystery couple.

Then you have the 1947 Border Crossing for Walter Maurice visiting "father Temple Smith". Hmm...

Hopefully the release of the 1921 census next month will shed light on matters.

Offline andrewp91

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Re: Imperial Yeomanry Record
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 14 December 21 23:24 GMT (UK) »
Yeah Alfred’s date of birth is 4 March 1873 and was born in Southampton.


Yeah it is really weird, I cannot find a George Alfred Smith in the Yeomanry records either or any George Smith that seem to match him either.
And as you say with Walter Maurice visiting Canada it just makes it more suspicious.

I’m not holding out for more information in the 1921 census but praying that my ancestor appears in it haha.


Offline Hillhurst

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Re: Imperial Yeomanry Record
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 15 December 21 00:03 GMT (UK) »
Even if you can't find a GAS in the Imperial Yeomanry, try searching for the GAS from Southampton with quite a few siblings in the 1881 and 1891 census records. That might also prove it's two different men.

Bear in mind that the "colourful" comments in GAS' CEF Personnel record could be tall tales. And his "wife" Bessie could be another woman (not his wife), perhaps with two children from a previous relationship.

After all, Walter Maurice's 1947 Border Crossing card says he's visiting "father Temple Smith". And not "parents Temple Smith".