Glasgow Duke St. Gen. Assoc. Anti Burger Church records 1760's

[lanarman]

This is a real "needle in the haystack" search but I am looking for a specific baptism 1760 to 1766 time frame for this Non Conformist church. So far- the Glasgow City Archives does not have these records or know where they could be. FamilySearch says that the National Archives in Edinburgh does not have them. The baptism is not in Greyfriars or St. Andrews Episcopal registers in Glasgow. Nor is it recorded in any conforming Church of Scotland or Roman Catholic records on SP website.  I conclude that they are non existent.  Any last hope ideas? Thank you.

[Forfarian]

This is a real "needle in the haystack" search but I am looking for a specific baptism 1760 to 1766 time frame for this Non Conformist church. So far- the Glasgow City Archives does not have these records or know where they could be. FamilySearch says that the National Archives in Edinburgh does not have them. The baptism is not in Greyfriars or St. Andrews Episcopal registers in Glasgow. Nor is it recorded in any conforming Church of Scotland or Roman Catholic records on SP website.  I conclude that they are non existent.  Any last hope ideas? Thank you.

If Glasgow City Archives doesn't know where they are, and they are not in any of the three catalogues at the National Records of Scotland, they probably don't exist. Search the catalogues at https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/catalogues-and-indexes.

The term 'non-conformist' is irrelevant, and potentially miselading, in Scotland. It refers specifically to English denominations whose clergy did not conform to the Church of England. If the same criterion had been applied in Scotland, the Church of Scotland itself would have been 'non-conformist'.

Antiburghers were one of the many dissenting denominations in Scotland, but all were Presbyterian, so there is no point looking for them in either Roman Catholic records or Episcopalian records, neither of which denominations are Presbyterian. There's a useful chart at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Church_of_Scotland_(1843%E2%80%931900)#/media/File:Reformed_Scots_Church_Denominations.svg which may not make things crystal clear but does at least show how complicated it all is.

[Skoosh]

Duke Street was apparently named in 1794 for the duke of Montrose who had a ludgin off the Drygate where Duke Street jail was built. Claimed to be the longest street in Britain.

Bests,
Skoosh.

[Lodger]

Do you have actual proof that this baptism took place? Why do you think it may have taken place in a Secession Church? And why Duke St?
"Gen(eral?) Assoc(iation)" isn't a term I've come across before in regard to Secessionist churches and 1760 - 1766 is, as far as I know, 15 - 20 years too early for Anti-Burgher congregations.

There is no mention of "Duke Street Church" in Diane Baptie's "Register of Secession Churches in Scotland" so perhaps it had another name?

[lanarman]

From Family Search website:

Duke Street General Associate Congregation. History— This congregation originated in the Breach in 1747. The majority of Shuttle Street, now Greyfriar’s congregation, adhered to the Associate Burgher Synod and retained the property, while the minority adhered to the General Associate Anti–burgher Synod and formed the congregation of Duke Street. They first met in a hall in Queen Street until 1754 when they moved to a newly built building on the corner of Duke and Havannah Streets. Newer churches were built at the same location in 1801 and 1871. A split in the congregation occurred in 1837 when the minister was deposed and another place of worship was built in Parliamentary Road in 1839. Another separation occurred in 1840 which led to the formation of the Montrose Street congregation. Source: Annals and Statistics of the United Presbyterian Church, by Rev. William MacKelvie, D.D., pub. 1873. Family History Library Film #477618 (https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/result s#count=20&query=%2Bfilm_number%3A477618). More details may be given in the source including a list of ministers. Records— No pre–1855 records are on deposit at the National Archives of Scotland in Edinburgh.

[lanarman]

This all ties in to this thread I posted in November last year.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=840769.msg7068532#msg7068532

To try and summarize: Alexander Drummond, tailor by profession/Catherine Cameron family from Logie Parish, Stirlingshire had children baptized at Viewfield Assoc. Session church up to 1761. Family moves to Glasgow between 1761 and 1763 and 2 of these children are noted in the Glasgow burial registers; both dead in 1763 with father named Alexander, a tailor and matching exactly with birth dates back in Stirlingshire. Another child in same register died in 1767, age 1.  So between 1761 and 1766 I assume there were more children born to this couple and one, I would hope, was my 4th Great Grandmother Mary Drummond. She married in 1785 and her husband was born in Glasgow in 1764 so the "gap" for missing records may contain her baptism. Three other hints: the naming pattern for Mary's children fits with her parents and siblings, exactly. Also Alexander was Anti-Burgher so he is not listed in the Burgess Rolls as he probably would not swear the Oath to the Church of Scotland. And lastly, from other sources, the location within Glasgow ties this Drummond family to mine.

[Lodger]

Yes "Associate Congregation" or "Associate Synod" are the correct terms, your "Gen Assoc." put me off a little and I was of course mistaken about your time period being too early for Anti Burghers. I was mixing them up with the Auld Lichts and the New Lichts. 

The mention of Havannah Street is a good clue, it was right at the city end of Duke Street and there was a church there called Greyfriars which was situated firstly in Shuttle Street.

The reference for records is CH3/469. There are the following -

469/39 Baptisms 1729 - 1766 & Proclamations 1743 - 1779.
469/40 Baptisms 1767 - 1776. 1776 - 1783. 1789.
469/41 Baptisms 1835 - 1870.
469/42 Baptisms 1870 - 1965.
469/62 Greyfriars Congregation register Baptisms 1830 - 1844.

[lanarman]

Glasgow City Archives looked in their indexes for Greyfriars and came up negative for this baptism.

There is only one baptism on SP for a Mary Drummond born to Alexander and Margaret McEwen in Comrie, Perthshire in 1764. This Mary had a brother named Gregory and sister named Janet. My Mary had 14 children and none had these names- especially Margaret- her own mother- was a name that never carried down in our family. My Mary named her first daughter CATHERINE.

[Skoosh]

Looks like the Mitchell might have the answer,

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Glasgow_Nonconformist_Church_Records

Bests,
Skoosh.