Author Topic: Patrick Graham Or Alfred Patrick Graham death certificate Northumberland 1938  (Read 205 times)

Offline OurAncestors

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Hi, This may not be the correct forum but I am hoping it will be ok. I have a death cert for an Alfred Patrick Graham which I believe to be of my ancestor, I sent for it after following up a number of clues, its in the right area, time, the relationships are right, etc. However This person has another given name in addition to the one I expected. If anyone has any insights I would much appreciate. My ancestor was definitely Patrick Graham. I have no other  records of him as Alfred Patrick. 
Johnson, Coleman, Graham, Dixon, Thewlis

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Re: Patrick Graham Or Alfred Patrick Graham death certificate Northumberland 1938
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 06 January 22 15:53 GMT (UK) »
Did your Patrick marry?  If so to whom?  The cert is saying that Alfred Patrick's widow is Catherine.

Have you found your Patrick in any census records? 

Depending on when he had his birthday was either born in 1873 or 1874.  Have you tried to find any likely birth record?
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

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Re: Patrick Graham Or Alfred Patrick Graham death certificate Northumberland 1938
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 06 January 22 15:57 GMT (UK) »
For what it is worth there is this marriage:-

Marriages Dec 1898   
Coleman    Catherine        Newcastle T.    10b   287    
Graham    Patrick        Newcastle T.    10b   287

Your Patrick or a different one?
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire


Online CaroleW

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Re: Patrick Graham Or Alfred Patrick Graham death certificate Northumberland 1938
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 06 January 22 16:29 GMT (UK) »
End bit is interesting - deceased & widow lived apart?
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

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Re: Patrick Graham Or Alfred Patrick Graham death certificate Northumberland 1938
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 06 January 22 16:34 GMT (UK) »
1901 - b Newcastle

Freebmd - birth Dec qtr 1875 - just Patrick
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

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Re: Patrick Graham Or Alfred Patrick Graham death certificate Northumberland 1938
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 06 January 22 16:50 GMT (UK) »
This is the GRO record of that birth you found Carole

GRAHAM, PATRICK       MCQUIRE 
GRO Reference: 1875  D Quarter in NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE  Volume 10B  Page 89

Age at death isn't always accurate so could well have been born later than 1873/74.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Patrick Graham Or Alfred Patrick Graham death certificate Northumberland 1938
« Reply #6 on: Friday 07 January 22 14:24 GMT (UK) »
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/235643206/alfred-patrick-graham

I have checked his burial entry and he has same name of Alfred on there.  Puzzling that there is a different address to that shown on death cert. 

I have added this info to Find A Grave - if you are on there too I will be happy to transfer this ancestor's memorial to you.

Church Bank Cemetery
Alfred Patrick Graham
Labourer
Age 64
25 Tyne (View?) Tce, W'ton Quay
Died at R.V.I. Newcastle
Burial 20 August 1938
Section G plot 211
Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner

Offline OurAncestors

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Re: Patrick Graham Or Alfred Patrick Graham death certificate Northumberland 1938
« Reply #7 on: Friday 07 January 22 14:32 GMT (UK) »
For what it is worth there is this marriage:-

Marriages Dec 1898   
Coleman    Catherine        Newcastle T.    10b   287    
Graham    Patrick        Newcastle T.    10b   287

Your Patrick or a different one?

yes that is my Patrick, those names are on the birth certificate of my more recent ancestor, and on the more recent ancestor's wedding certificate,  Patrick is listed as the father, in 1929.  I have census 1911, 1901, and I have a copy of a marriage certificate where he is marrying Catherine Coleman. There is also a burial record with a Patrick Graham being interred in 1938 and later in 1947 Catherine's remains go  in with his. I believe he was born in 1875 to Mary Ann and Charles. I have his census records where he is living with Mary Ann and Charles, in the 1800s.
Johnson, Coleman, Graham, Dixon, Thewlis

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Re: Patrick Graham Or Alfred Patrick Graham death certificate Northumberland 1938
« Reply #8 on: Friday 07 January 22 14:39 GMT (UK) »
End bit is interesting - deceased & widow lived apart?

They were Roman Catholics, in those days they  tended to be observant and separation was permitted but divorce totally impossible. I have no idea why they may have lived apart but if they didn't want to be together and could find some other way of living, possibly with other family members, that's what they would have done. It makes sense to me.
Johnson, Coleman, Graham, Dixon, Thewlis