Author Topic: Thomas Hornby Hayes?  (Read 117 times)

Offline Sammy An

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Thomas Hornby Hayes?
« on: Friday 07 January 22 15:05 GMT (UK) »
I'm having problems in the 1921 census.

I've looked up my grandfather who was at that time 6 years old.
His father on his birth certificate as Thomas Hornby, His mother is Sarah Ellen Hayes.
He is registered on his birth certificate as Thomas H Hayes.
His Mother married Thomas Hornby 2 years after the birth in 1917, yet in the 1921 census Sarah Hayes has changed her surname to Hornby but the child is still there as Thomas H Hayes 4 years after the marriage.
I'm confused as to why the mother changes her surname and the child remains as Hayes even though Thomas Hornby is registered as father on the birth certificate the same man she married?

Is this normal at that time, or does it possibly suggest that Thomas Hornby is in fact not the real father?

I do know after the death of Sarah in 1929, Thomas H Hayes is 14 at that time and leaves home as soon as he can to join the army and never see's his father again.
Also When Sarah dies, Thomas Hornby her husband owns burial plots in St Helens Lancashire. He is buried there with his mother father and brother. But when his wife dies in 1929 Sarah is buried in a paupers grave in the same cemetery, even though I know Thomas Owned the plots before Sarahs death. It's all very confusing to me.

Can a birth certificate be changed years later to add a father who wasn't originally on it?

I do also know that Sarah had 5 children and on every birth certificate was a fake farthers name.

Any help would be greatly appreciated from someone who might know more than me.

Thanks

Sammy.


Online Milliepede

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Re: Thomas Hornby Hayes?
« Reply #1 on: Friday 07 January 22 15:40 GMT (UK) »
Well technically if his parents weren't married when he was born Hayes was his surname. 
Some children keep their surname others changed it to match mothers married name.

If she had 5 made up fathers for subsequent children it is rather suspicious this one was correct but who was the informant on the birth - the mother?

Is there a baptism for him with a father's name?
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Offline Sammy An

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Re: Thomas Hornby Hayes?
« Reply #2 on: Friday 07 January 22 15:47 GMT (UK) »
I've never found a baptism for him.

I understand about keeping the mothers maiden name, but it seems odd as the man she married is also registered as the father on the birth certificate.

I'm not sure why she would have changed her own surname but not the childs, as the father is who she is married to and the father is on the birth certificate.

Sammy


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Re: Thomas Hornby Hayes?
« Reply #3 on: Friday 07 January 22 15:59 GMT (UK) »
What was the address on the birth certificate please?

Did Thomas name the same father when he got married?
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Offline CaroleW

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Re: Thomas Hornby Hayes?
« Reply #4 on: Friday 07 January 22 20:35 GMT (UK) »
If he was born 1915 and Hornby is shown as his father on his birth cert - given that Sarah later married him I think itís safe to say that Hornby was his biological father

Legally - his surname was Hayes irrespective of the fact his mother married Hornby 2yrs later.  Unless Hornby formally adopted him after that date he would remain as Hayes.  As he does not appear to have had a good relationship with his father - I doubt adoption was ever on the cards

https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/private-lives/relationships/overview/legitimacyadoption/


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Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Thomas Hornby Hayes?
« Reply #5 on: Friday 07 January 22 21:58 GMT (UK) »


What dates do you see on birth certificate for Thomas H HAYES?

Should be date of event, date of registration, date when certificate was issued.....to researcher?.

Offline heatherjulie

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Re: Thomas Hornby Hayes?
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 08 January 22 12:20 GMT (UK) »
Which birth record are you looking at?

1915 Thomas Hornby Hayes registered Prescot

or

1917 Thomas H Hayes registered Toxteth Park

Offline lancsann

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Re: Thomas Hornby Hayes?
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 08 January 22 16:43 GMT (UK) »
for possible info

Baptism: 28 Jan 1896 St Paul Mission, Eccleston, Lancashire, England
Lily Hayes - [Child] of Sarah Ellen Hayes, Single Woman
    Born: 16 Jan 1896
    Abode: 106 Lyon St.
    Notes: P. [in right margin] R. June 2 [in left margin]
    Baptised by: J. Richardson

same address as a Sarah Ellen (single woman) in 1911 who has had 4 children with 2 living (Annie & William) Lily died age 6 months

There is not a lot online for that area

Offline CaroleW

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Re: Thomas Hornby Hayes?
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 08 January 22 19:38 GMT (UK) »
Per GRO online - 1915 birth Thomas Hornby Hayes (opening post says he is 6yrs old on the 1921 census)

1917 birth was  Thomas Harvey Hayes
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Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)