Elizabeth Carroll born 1847, Griffin Street, Deptford

[Josie88]

Hi all,

I have another family mystery that has now become apparent.

Im trying to find what happened to my partners 3x great grand mother, Elizabeth Carroll.
Her son was James Butler. On James's birth certificate she was the living at 1 mason street, Grove street, Deptford. Now when I've tried to find this address it comes up as two separate addresses! so that's the first issue.

She claims she was formally Carroll which suggests she married John Butler (James's father). But again I can't find anything to confirm this. No marriage or baptism certificate.

Also in 1871 John Butler is unmarried living a few streets away from James who is a nurse child.

Any advice or help on trying to work out who Elizabeth Carroll was and what happened to her would be so helpful.

I found a Carroll family in 1861 living in Griffin street, deptford. John (from Ireland), Eliza (from Ireland), Elizabeth (Deptford) and Mary. But again nothing to connect them to James. nor any documents apart from the 1961 and 71 census.


Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks and kind regards

[softly softly]

Could this be the marriage.

Marriages Dec 1865   
Butler    John        Rotherhithe    1d   1145    
Carroll    Elizabeth        Rotherhithe    1d   1145    
French    William        Rotherhithe    1d   1145    
Ruse    Charlotte        Rotherhithe    1d   1145    
Ruse    Charlotts        Rotherhithe    1d   1145   

John

Added: Marriage certificate should give occupations and father's details.

[Josie88]

Hi John,

This may well be them. Thank you so much for taking the time to help. I’m using ancestry and for some reason doesn’t seem to be giving me many documents.

I’ll now use this info you have sent over to try and find out more.

Very grateful
Thank you

[softly softly]

I trust you know who James married and his children.

John

[Josie88]

Hi John,

Yes I’ve got all that info. But now trying to go back a generation. But just keep hitting brick walls.

I would love to know/find out more about Elizabeth and her family. I think her dad was John. And mum Eliza. Her sister could be Mary (1853).

[softly softly]

I too believe Elizabeth's parents to be John & Eliza Carroll. The fact that Elizabeth was recorded as aged 14 in 1861 census would put her (possible) marriage age in 1865 as approx 18/19. Also the fact that James was a nurse child in 1861 aged 3 could indicate that Elizabeth (possibly) died between his birth in 1868 and the 1871 census.Had she died then John Butler would have been "unmarried" in 1871 but should be a "widower" but I have had the same issue in my tree.

Below James birth record plus a good contender for an earlier brother.


BUTLER, JAMES       mmn CARROLL 
GRO Reference: 1868  M Quarter in GREENWICH  Volume 01D  Page 799


BUTLER, JOHN       mmn CARROLL 
GRO Reference: 1867  M Quarter in STRAND  Volume 01B  Page 585

john

[Josie88]

Oh John what amazing info. Thank you. I shall have to look this up.

Thank you for your theory. It’s exactly what I was thinking too. Again can’t seem to find a death record for Elizabeth.  I don’t understand why I can’t get any further forward. Esp as I have some key info.

Just wondering if you might know why Elizabeth put two different streets Down on James’s birth certificate.
1 mason stree, grove street, deptford??? I’ve googled these two streets and they are not close by to each other.

However grove street is very close to griffin street and the Carroll’s.

John is living very close by to James in 1971. So I think James was left during the day at the Quinn’s maybe while John worked.

James went on to become a music hall comedy act. Haven’t been able to find out anything relating to this either. I did put a chat up on here and some helpful members provided some really helpful info.

Thank you again for helping.

[Daisypetal]

Hi,

Regarding the Mason Street, Grove Street address in 1868 I think that this map might help, it was even surveyed in 1868

https://maps.nls.uk/view/103313084

I can see Grove Street on the top right hand side with a small Mason Street coming off it.


Regards,
Daisy

[Josie88]

Hi Daisy,


Wow. Thank you so much. I’ve been searching and searching. I just kept finding Mason Street where the asylum was. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply.

This also fits in with the recent marriage certificate I bought. This Elizabeth and John got married around that area. 2 New Road.


However this Elizabeth’s father is down as Edward.  Not John and was deceased.

Witness was a Daniel Driscoll. Now I’ve found a Daniel Driscoll in 1961 living with his wife Ellen, their two children and his sister in law Eliza Carroll. 

There’s also Hannah Dwyer as a witness. Not sure who she is and how she fits in.

Any further help or info would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards