Author Topic: Permission from parents to marry under 21 - church only?  (Read 694 times)

Offline melba_schmelba

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Permission from parents to marry under 21 - church only?
« on: Sunday 16 January 22 19:25 GMT (UK) »
After civil marriage came in in 1837, did a person still need parental permission to marry under the age of 21, or did that only apply to marriages in the Church of England?

Offline CaroleW

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Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline Erato

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Re: Permission from parents to marry under 21 - church only?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 16 January 22 19:44 GMT (UK) »
My g-grandparents were married in 1885 in Bristol.  They were both underaged.  Their marriage licence stated,

"William Marshall, father [of the bride], left England 18 years ago and not heard of for last 7 years by his family. No person having authority to give consent to the marriage and further that the consent of Louisa Augusta Marshall of Ealing in County of Middlesex the mother and natural guardian of said May Augusta Marshall have been obtained to said marriage and also the consent of Josiah Banks parish Holy Nativity Knowle in the County & Diocese, father of Herbert Banks."

In fact, William Marshall and Louisa Augusta Marshall were entirely fictional characters and the bride was accompanied by her foster mother but that is another issue.  They did require consent but the authorities were a bit lax in the case of g-grandma, May Augusta, and accepted her tale of the long-disappeared father and the mother in London.
Wiltshire:  Banks, Taylor
Somerset:  Duddridge, Richards, Barnard, Pillinger
Gloucestershire:  Barnard, Marsh, Crossman
Bristol:  Banks, Duddridge, Barnard
Down:  Ennis, McGee
Wicklow:  Chapman, Pepper
Wigtownshire:  Logan, Conning
Wisconsin:  Ennis, Chapman, Logan, Ware
Maine:  Ware, Mitchell, Tarr, Davis

Offline AntonyMMM

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Re: Permission from parents to marry under 21 - church only?
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 16 January 22 20:02 GMT (UK) »
Yes it did apply to civil marriage, but it was a complex mix of canon law, the 1753 Marriage Act and the 1836 Marriage Act (sec 3 of each).

Read Rebecca Probert's book on marriage law for genealogists for the detail of what might be valid/invalid/void etc.


Offline melba_schmelba

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Re: Permission from parents to marry under 21 - church only?
« Reply #4 on: Monday 17 January 22 11:35 GMT (UK) »
Yes it did apply to civil marriage, but it was a complex mix of canon law, the 1753 Marriage Act and the 1836 Marriage Act (sec 3 of each).

Read Rebecca Probert's book on marriage law for genealogists for the detail of what might be valid/invalid/void etc.
Thanks all :), yes I see that the 1836 act did proclaim

"and where either of the Parties, not being a widower or widow, shall be under the age of Twenty-one Years, that such Marriage is intended, with the consent of the person or persons whose consent to such Marriage is required by law, or that there is no person having authority to give such consent: "


https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/1836_(34)_Marriages._A_bill_for_Marriages_in_England

However, I suppose none of that allows for the person simply fibbing about being of age when they weren't. I wonder, could a marriage be retrospectively be declared null and void in that case?

Offline Jon_ni

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Re: Permission from parents to marry under 21 - church only?
« Reply #5 on: Monday 17 January 22 14:26 GMT (UK) »
Quote
I wonder, could a marriage be retrospectively be declared null and void in that case?

No, if above the legal minimum marriage age (with permission eg 16).

Offline melba_schmelba

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Re: Permission from parents to marry under 21 - church only?
« Reply #6 on: Monday 17 January 22 14:41 GMT (UK) »
Quote
I wonder, could a marriage be retrospectively be declared null and void in that case?

No, if above the legal minimum marriage age (with permission eg 16).
So there was no real disincentive to lie then? Or could people be prosecuted for lying about being under the age of majority, but even if they could, were they?

Offline AntonyMMM

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Re: Permission from parents to marry under 21 - church only?
« Reply #7 on: Monday 17 January 22 15:20 GMT (UK) »
Quote
I wonder, could a marriage be retrospectively be declared null and void in that case?

No, if above the legal minimum marriage age (with permission eg 16).

Minimum marriage age was 12(girls) / 14(boys) until 1929.

So there was no real disincentive to lie then? Or could people be prosecuted for lying about being under the age of majority, but even if they could, were they?

People have always lied about their age when marrying .... no they wouldn't be prosecuted.

Offline Jon_ni

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Re: Permission from parents to marry under 21 - church only?
« Reply #8 on: Monday 17 January 22 15:22 GMT (UK) »
No, though in theory could be prosecuted for perjury for making a false declaration.

If married by banns, the couple was required to announce or publish their intention to marry for three consecutive Sundays. If no one objected to the intended marriage, then the couple was allowed to marry.
If either of the couple were under the age of 21 years and previously unmarried, then a parent or guardian of the underage party could forbid the banns. However, if they failed to object at the time the banns were read, they could not later object to the marriage.

While the parent of a minor could forbid the banns and so prevent a marriage from going ahead, a marriage by banns that took place without active parental dissent was valid. This gave rise to the practice whereby underage couples would resort to a parish where they were not resident to have the banns called without their parents' knowledge. Since the Act specifically prohibited the courts from inquiring into the parties' place of residence after the marriage had been celebrated, such evasive marriages were still valid. The only way in which an aggrieved parent could challenge such a marriage was if there had been a mistake amounting to fraud in the calling of the banns.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clandestine_Marriages_Act_1753

Where the marriage of an infant, not being a widower or widow, is intended to be solemnized after the publication of banns of matrimony then, if any person whose consent to the marriage would have been required under this section in the case of a marriage intended to be solemnized otherwise than after the publication of the banns, openly and publicly declares or causes to be declared, in the church or chapel in which the banns are published, at the time of the publication, his dissent from the intended marriage, the publication of banns shall be void.
A clergyman shall not be liable to ecclesiastical censure for solemnizing the marriage of an infant after the publication of banns without the consent of the parents or guardians of the infant unless he had notice of the dissent of any person who is entitled to give notice of dissent under the last foregoing subsection.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo6/12-13-14/76/enacted
original pdf https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1949/76/pdfs/ukpga_19490076_en.pdf

You are unfortunately asking casual questions about a complicated subject which is likely why Antony suggested the book on marriage law.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ovFg_xZLy8oC&pg=PA227&lpg=PA227#v=onepage&q&f=false