Author Topic: Crossland in Basford  (Read 726 times)

Offline Annie65115

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Re: Crossland in Basford
« Reply #9 on: Friday 28 January 22 16:21 GMT (UK) »
What's the betting that Martha and Alfred didn't actually marry. If they'd met away from Basford, then he could easily have brought her back to the town as his wife, without bothering to marry, and no-one would have been any the wiser.

This would explain her being called Marsh at her marriage in Whitstable, and the "romantic" tale about being a blameless serving wench ravaged by the lord of the manor.
Bradbury (Sedgeley, Bilston, Warrington)
Cooper (Sedgeley, Bilston)
Kilner/Kilmer (Leic, Notts)
Greenfield (Liverpool)
Holyland (Anywhere and everywhere, also Holiland Holliland Hollyland)
Pryce/Price (Welshpool, Liverpool)
Rawson (Leicester)
Upton (Desford, Leics)
Partrick (Vera and George, Leicester)
Marshall (Westmorland, Cheshire/Leicester)

Offline djm297

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Re: Crossland in Basford
« Reply #10 on: Friday 28 January 22 17:13 GMT (UK) »
Wow... I haven't been able to continue searching until now, and it looks like the mystery may have been solved!

As ever with family stories, there is a kernel of truth in there somewhere!

The only extra record I can find is a record of medals for Alfred Crossland  of the 6th Hussars
 (Carabineers) died 12 May 1859 : Indian Mutiny Medal 1857-59

djm297

Offline Annie65115

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Re: Crossland in Basford
« Reply #11 on: Friday 28 January 22 17:56 GMT (UK) »
The 1851 census shows Alfred with his widowed father James Crosland, 6 siblings, and James' mother in law, all born in Basford.

James was a lord of the realm --- whoops no, I mean a road labourer  ;D

The FH CD has Crosland baptisms in Basford going back to 1768, if you want to go any further back.
Bradbury (Sedgeley, Bilston, Warrington)
Cooper (Sedgeley, Bilston)
Kilner/Kilmer (Leic, Notts)
Greenfield (Liverpool)
Holyland (Anywhere and everywhere, also Holiland Holliland Hollyland)
Pryce/Price (Welshpool, Liverpool)
Rawson (Leicester)
Upton (Desford, Leics)
Partrick (Vera and George, Leicester)
Marshall (Westmorland, Cheshire/Leicester)

Offline kateyas

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Re: Crossland in Basford
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 29 January 22 07:04 GMT (UK) »
Hello and thank you 'Dizzifish' and 'Annie 65115', 'djm297 - I know about the medals. There was a lot of disease of course, and I believe more of the soldiers died of that than in the fighting.
You are all wonderful. I'm ecstatic! I'm 84 and want to whoop around the house! You have no idea how I've agonised over this. I wish my mother was alive [at 107] to know this. In fact all the family should know. My theories of aggrandisement are probably true, because it all sounded a bit "Mill's and Boonish'', with Martha described as 'beautiful', and the son-of-the-house etc....; a great love story, of course. With all the terrible poverty my family lived through, they needed something bright and romantic in their lives, which were very hard, like most ordinary people's were. I believe Martha Marsh was born in Herne [Blean] Workhouse; another mystery to sort. My early family lived in dread of the Workhouse.
I am definitely vindicated in my search and assumption made about 3 or 4 years ago, that the Alfred Crosland that you & I all found, and have quoted, was g.g.dad's father. I need to fill in a bit more to the story for you; hope I'm not being tedious, but it complements what you found for me and my extended family.
I saw somewhere a few years or so back, and never recorded the URL, that g.g.dad's mother, Martha,  and John Sandy had a registered understanding regarding marriage [or something, can't remember the exact term], so how she came to go to Nottingham, or why, I still don't know, and I did see her name in some records [not Census] as living with the quoted Crosland family. I've not been able to source that since. In our family the Crossland name is always double 's' and I know it gets both spellings. The Crosslands were said to have wanted to accept her and young Frank into the family as if she and Alfred had actually married, but she said 'no' and had to stop the gifts of clothes and money  sent after she returned to Blean, because of John Sandy's behaviour.
 Yes, Martha did marry John Sandy as we know, and all of that is correct and known by my family. I am descended through Frank Alfred Marsh and Elizabeth Anderson's eldest daughter, Alice Annie Marsh [marr. Merritt]; my mother was Elsie May, her 7th child, b.1915.
John Sandy treated Frank Alfred appallingly, beating him a lot, calling him 'bastard', and so on [so poor Martha, I've often wondered what she went through]. At 12 years old Frank left home and went sea. He returned to see his mother once he was an adult and, according to how his stepfather greeted him, would attempt a reconciliation. He was greeted with - 'what do you want, you bastard' so got a beating in return for previous treatments. John Sandy died 1885; Martha died 1913.
Mum and I lived with him and g.granny in 1945, with Mum and 2 of her sisters caring for him until they died [he in 1946 and g.granny in 1945]. He was an 'ag worker/woodcutter' in all the Census papers. Even at 88 he was upright, with an Edward VII beard, and sailor's haircut, and working in the vegetable garden and orchard everyday.
Yes, Blean is in Kent and a very lovely area between Canterbury and Whitstable, with extensive Ancient Woodlands, now being restored, and was also a very big area for smugglers of C17- C19+; good reading out there I've recently found out!


Offline kateyas

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Re: Crossland in Basford
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 03 February 22 22:22 GMT (UK) »
Hello again.
I now have a copy of the original birth registration. Frank Alfred Marsh was originally registered as 'Francis', and his d.o.b. [28th April] was different to the family's belief, so he was actually 87 when he died, 2 months before he turned 88. Martha was called ''Crosland" and not Marsh. Alfred Crosland was described as a "workman in an Iron Foundry" not as a "bleacher". So thanks again to all my 'facilitators'. I still have the mystery of how and why Martha went to Nottingham, but that can keep, I guess. This history haunted me for many years so the resolution feels very sweet.

Offline Dizzifish

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Re: Crossland in Basford
« Reply #14 on: Friday 04 February 22 16:40 GMT (UK) »
Hello ! thanks for the update.It is good to know you now have the original birth certificate and discovered a little more to your story.

I was a little confused when you said "Martha was called ''Crosland" and not Marsh"......
as the GRO index does give mother's maiden name as MARSH  :-\
   
Name:CROSLAND, FRANCIS    /  Mother's Maiden Surname: MARSH     
GRO Reference: 1857  J Quarter in BASFORD  Volume 07B  Page 123

Does it not say on the certificate her maiden name was Marsh?

I was interested as to where and when the 6th Dragoons were stationed when Alfred was with them and I did find this via Ancestry..... which may help in explaining why/how Alfred & Martha met as this event took place in Kent.

From the UK, Naval and Military Courts Martial Registers, 1806-1930
Alfred Crosland
Name: Alfred Crosland
Court or Trial Date:   8 Jun 1857
Court or Trial Place:   Maidstone
Regiment:   6th Drgn Gos
Reference Number:   WO 86/9

I don't have the Ancestry® All Access subscription to get to view it - but you can have a free 7 day trial via Fold3. com but I had advantage of  that quite some time ago. https://www.fold3.com/billing.php?choice=freetrial&member=yes

Offline kateyas

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Re: Crossland in Basford
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 05 February 22 05:17 GMT (UK) »
Hi Dizzifish.
Many thanks for that last bit of info.
Re- Martha. Yes, I have bought a copy of the original GRO birth Certificate, as well as the GRO record from the internet site. The actual Birth Certificate states clearly that g.g.d's name was just "Francis", + "Martha Crosland formerly Marsh" and the rest all as stated in my last post; the page number was '135' [no other number] and no other identifier of what the Register was called, other than it was the Superintendent's Registrar's District of Basford, etc., whereas on the GRO website, site with the reference numbers you originally gave me, it does state only 'Marsh' for Martha's maiden name, and "Francis" had become "Frank". I don't know/can't see how to attach a copy of the B/cert. for you to see.
So quite possibly that, for whatever reason she decided, or whatever happened between Martha and Alfred, she must have re-registered him under the 'Frank'. Francis was Alfred's grandfather's name, and Alfred had a younger brother named 'Francis', according to the records. G.grandad did keep the place and memory of his father's family in his own family by giving all his son's the second name of 'Crossland'. I imagine that Alfred being sent to India, or the news of his death, was probably why she returned to Blean and family.
As for the 6th Dragoon Gds being in Kent, you & I were on the same tracks as I knew that Canterbury had a garrison [Mum and her sisters knew that full well, too!], and that Whitstable also often had soldiers there. I've been busy over the past few days but my next move was to see what I could find out about that. I have only the Ancestry Library version access though our local Shire Council's Library [they all have this access in Australia - very useful and as a result of COVID we can now access it online! I had Ancestry for 6 mths but couldn't afford to keep it going]. I'll plod on and see. Knowing the area physically and directly has been a great help to me, too, but I wish Mum was here to share it all - better still that I had started this 40 years or more ago!
I'm amazed at the help I've been given and am so grateful for it.

Offline kateyas

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Re: Crossland in Basford
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 05 February 22 08:33 GMT (UK) »
Hello again.
I haven't accessed the 'Fold 3' site yet, but I have checked and the 6th Dragoon Guards were definitely stationed in Canterbury; they went to WWI from there. But trying to extract, or even find, greater details in the 1850s seems to require quite a bit more digging.
It's getting more and more like a 'Mills and Boon' detective and historical romance, even if not a 'bodice-ripper'! I'm trying to write up my family history, and I'm sure I'll get enough to make a semi-biographical novel with everything else I have - if I have time away from my garden and other chores!
Thanks again.