Author Topic: baptism record but no date of birth and not in civil records  (Read 601 times)

Offline OurAncestors

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baptism record but no date of birth and not in civil records
« on: Friday 28 January 22 13:35 GMT (UK) »
I had my first visit to the local archives and was able to look at the baptism book of the church I was interested in. It is a roman catholic record book from the 1930s to later. The first entry I noticed for a child 11 April 1930 , the words "sub conditions". There was no date of birth but the baptism date, the parents names etc. As  the child's name obviously. This is a family name I am researching so I thought I would look them up in the GRO index to see if its one of "mine". There was nothing, even with variants on the names.  So did the child die too soon to get a civil registration?
It seemed a lot of them had "sub conditions". I asked the archivist and she said it was if they were at risk of not surviving.
Johnson, Coleman, Graham, Dixon, Thewlis

Offline heywood

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Re: baptism record but no date of birth and not in civil records
« Reply #1 on: Friday 28 January 22 14:19 GMT (UK) »
A conditional baptism is administered, I believe, when there may be doubt whether the candidate has previously been baptised.
This could be if a baby had been baptised by a lay person if there was a risk of death. Baptism can only be given once so if grandma or someone baptised the babe that would be valid.
Also, it can be given if an older person, for example, was converting to Catholicism and was unsure if they had been baptised.
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Offline heywood

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Re: baptism record but no date of birth and not in civil records
« Reply #2 on: Friday 28 January 22 14:21 GMT (UK) »
Did you check for a death certificate around the same time?
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Offline OurAncestors

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Re: baptism record but no date of birth and not in civil records
« Reply #3 on: Friday 28 January 22 14:32 GMT (UK) »
I have looked now, there are none. I wonder why the baptism date but no birth date. And no civil record?
Johnson, Coleman, Graham, Dixon, Thewlis


Offline Tickettyboo

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Re: baptism record but no date of birth and not in civil records
« Reply #4 on: Friday 28 January 22 15:34 GMT (UK) »
I have looked now, there are none. I wonder why the baptism date but no birth date. And no civil record?

Have you looked for a possible civil registration for a 'marriage' in this name  not long after the baptism - which may lend weight to the adult baptism theory, possibly converting to Catholicism prior to marriage?

Boo

Offline Tickettyboo

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Re: baptism record but no date of birth and not in civil records
« Reply #5 on: Friday 28 January 22 15:57 GMT (UK) »
In addition to Heywood's info about conditional baptisms.
All the churches agree that baptism can only be administered once, but each had rituals specific to their religion, over and above a simple sprinkling of water while something along the lines of "I baptise thee ... " was said,  to complete the ceremony according to their particular manner.   

If they'd been baptised at home immediately after birth as they were thought to be in danger of dying then these rituals would be carried out if/when they were well enough to be taken to church (sometimes listed in Anglican registers as 'being received into the congregation'.

Or in the case of an adult baptism, when they either didn't know if they'd ever been baptised or were converting to another religion these further rituals would be carried out.

Boo

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: baptism record but no date of birth and not in civil records
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 29 January 22 00:21 GMT (UK) »

Or in the case of an adult baptism, when they either didn't know if they'd ever been baptised or were converting to another religion these further rituals would be carried out.


A woman on a side branch of my tree had a conditional baptism in a Catholic church when she was 30. She and her 2 illegitimate children had returned to live with her parents in the town where she was born. She was baptised on the same day as her 9 year-old son. She had been baptised when a baby in another Catholic church in the same town. Her age in the 2nd baptism register is wrong by a year so searching a  register in the year she said she was born wouldn't have found her original baptism. Her 4 year-old daughter was baptised a few months after the double ceremony.   
Cowban