Author Topic: Opinion on Unknown Father  (Read 2393 times)

Offline Zakerias

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Opinion on Unknown Father
« on: Saturday 29 January 22 15:23 GMT (UK) »
Hi there

A relation of mine has taken a DNA test on Ancestry as he is trying to find out information on his biological father.

Under extended family there is something very interesting - out of the five listed, three appear to be related by the same line (Steel) and they are all listed as 2nd-3rd cousin.

Karen (192cM across 11 segments)
Public Tree: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/tree/29595224/
David (141cM across 12 segments)
Public Tree: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/tree/1202529/
Christine (115cM across 9 segments)
Public Tree: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/tree/172714736/

All three appear to share the same great-grandparents in William Metcalfe Steel (1873-1947) and Eva Annie Steel (nee Saul) (1879-1953) (There is a small mistake in Davidís tree). As far as I know they had three sons, John Myers Steel (1900-1982), William Metcalfe Steel (1907-1964) and Arthur Steel (1912-2004). I was wondering if it was likely that one of these three men may be my relationís biological father, given the close relationship? My relation was born in Leicestershire in 1936 to a young mother (born 1919).

The Steel family are from Yorkshire - I have no idea how they could have met my relationís mother given the distance (I certainly have found no evidence of their travel outside of Yorkshire). All three sons appear to have followed in their fatherís footsteps as Market Gardeners.

On my relations DNA story there is a strong connection to Yorkshire but looking at my relations known family tree I can find no link to Yorkshire, so Iím assuming that this connection must be from his fatherís biological side?

If you require any further information then please feel free to ask, delving into the world of DNA is quite challenging when first starting out.

Hopefully you are able to access the public trees.

Offline whoamitoday

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Re: Opinion on Unknown Father
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 30 January 22 16:51 GMT (UK) »
I'm sorry but I think that it's unlikely. That scenario would make the relationship between your relative and each of the 3 matches, that of first cousins once removed.
When I put the numbers into the DNA Painter tool, for the lower 2 matches it comes up with zero probability of this relationship, and for the highest match, it's only 3%. I think that you probably need to go a bit further back on their trees and then forward again along the other twigs, to find more likely candidates.

Offline Zakerias

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Re: Opinion on Unknown Father
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 02 February 22 23:46 GMT (UK) »
I'm sorry but I think that it's unlikely. That scenario would make the relationship between your relative and each of the 3 matches, that of first cousins once removed.
When I put the numbers into the DNA Painter tool, for the lower 2 matches it comes up with zero probability of this relationship, and for the highest match, it's only 3%. I think that you probably need to go a bit further back on their trees and then forward again along the other twigs, to find more likely candidates.

Thank you for the response whoamitoday. I didn't know about the DNA Painter tool until now. From what I've mentioned, do you think that my relative's father is descended from the Steel line? This is probably a stupid question but could the link be maternal from the Steel line? E.g. William Metcalfe Steel's sibling X (female) married Y (male), who had a child Z (male). Is there a possibility that child Z could be the father? (Basically I'm asking if I need to investigate the female members of the Steel line as well)

Offline Carmella

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Re: Opinion on Unknown Father
« Reply #3 on: Friday 04 February 22 15:50 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Just jumping in here to say yes, you're right - research sideways and upwards for the Steel family.

Also research Eva Annie Saul's family - parents, uncles/aunts, siblings etc.

See if you can find any DNA matches to anyone else who descends from any of these family groups
to try and help narrow things down further.

The DNA painter website also has a tool called "What Are The Odds" where you can create a DNA cM values tree and place a person (your relative) at various positions in the tree and see what the probabilities are for each position.

If necessary upload your relatives' DNA to other companies such as MyHeritage, FTDNA & LivingDNA as I've found different people test on different DNA databases.




Offline Zakerias

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Re: Opinion on Unknown Father
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 01 May 22 13:30 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Just jumping in here to say yes, you're right - research sideways and upwards for the Steel family.

Also research Eva Annie Saul's family - parents, uncles/aunts, siblings etc.

See if you can find any DNA matches to anyone else who descends from any of these family groups
to try and help narrow things down further.

The DNA painter website also has a tool called "What Are The Odds" where you can create a DNA cM values tree and place a person (your relative) at various positions in the tree and see what the probabilities are for each position.

If necessary upload your relatives' DNA to other companies such as MyHeritage, FTDNA & LivingDNA as I've found different people test on different DNA databases.

Thank you

Coming back to this, I have another person of interest. He is the son of Florence Steel and John William Heaton, William Myers Heaton (b. 1906). Florence Steel is the sister of William Metcalfe Steel (who three of the DNA matches links to). It would appear he was living in Leicester (6 miles from my relation's mother) in 1939 (having married in Leicester in 1934). From the 1939 it would appear he was an electrician.

I'd appreciate it if someone could run these odds through the DNA toolkit? Or let me know if this relation is a better fit based on the official DNA relationships identified on page one? I've submitted a request for the 1934 marriage certificate.

Offline Biggles50

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Re: Opinion on Unknown Father
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 01 May 22 15:19 BST (UK) »
Learning at least the basics would be more useful to you in the longer term than having someone do the tasks for you.

The simple tool requires you to enter your DNA matches cM value it then changes to show the Probabilities of each possible relationship, this gives you an idea of from which xGGPís you can start to hunt from.

If you have say a high cM match and they have a visible tree and their DNA linked then you can build your version of their tree and expand it to include the Shared Matches.  Create a Gedcom file and import it into DNA Painterís WATO tool, enter yourself as the home person and the cM for each of all the shared matches in the tree.  Then you have a list of a number of potential hypothesis.

This is a lot of work to do but can be useful in narrowing down the options.

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Opinion on Unknown Father
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 01 May 22 15:41 BST (UK) »
Those numbers could be second cousin once removed or half second cousins too. The link could be an illegitimate child or sibling of William M  STEEL
The fact that your relation connects to his sister seems to show the relationship is thru  * one of their parents their father Mathew STEEL or mother Mary METCALF
not Eva SAUL


Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline Zakerias

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Re: Opinion on Unknown Father
« Reply #7 on: Monday 02 May 22 23:49 BST (UK) »
Entering the three DNA matches for WATO gives me:



Hypothesis 39
Mills is the child of William M Heaton and grandchild of Florence Steel
SCORE = 959
This hypothesis is possible

Not really sure what to do next.

The score is pretty high, I'm guessing I can eliminate others and for the most part, I've already done (as most tend to stay in the area).

Share link for probability tree:
https://dnapainter.com/tools/probability/view/74861171d608ca7a

No idea what I'm doing really - just giving it a go

Offline Biggles50

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Re: Opinion on Unknown Father
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 03 May 22 11:49 BST (UK) »
That is the best way to learn, just to do it.