Author Topic: Carlyle families of Torthorwald opinions  (Read 273 times)

Offline Mojo47

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Carlyle families of Torthorwald opinions
« on: Wednesday 09 February 22 06:09 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

I have an ancestor named Mary Carlyle (1688-1780) of Roucan,Torthorwald parish,Dumfriesshire who Iíve hit a bit of a brick wall on and would like to have some opinions on.
Other than her birth and death dates and knowing he husband wa John Coulter of Howgate,Roucan, I havenít been able to find anything.The Torthorwald records are patchy for this period.
What I would like opinions on is this:

Given the age concerned,location etc
How probable do you think it is that she belonged to the well documented Dumfriesshire Carlyle family?       
  This family had various branches in the area including members in Torthorwald village itself and also in the surrounding area.
I know this could be a dangerous assumption to make but given the location and period concerned, I believe there may be large probability of her being so.However.If it was the same situation in any other part of the country or a different time period, I would be inclined not make the same judgement.

Any opinions much appreciated

Offline majm

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Re: Carlyle families of Torthorwald opinions
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 09 February 22 06:31 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

I have an ancestor named Mary Carlyle (1688-1780) of Roucan,Torthorwald parish,Dumfriesshire who Iíve hit a bit of a brick wall on and would like to have some opinions on.
Other than her birth and death dates and knowing he husband wa John Coulter of Howgate,Roucan, I havenít been able to find anything.The Torthorwald records are patchy for this period.
What I would like opinions on is this:

Given the age concerned,location etc
How probable do you think it is that she belonged to the well documented Dumfriesshire Carlyle family?       
  This family had various branches in the area including members in Torthorwald village itself and also in the surrounding area.
I know this could be a dangerous assumption to make but given the location and period concerned, I believe there may be large probability of her being so.However.If it was the same situation in any other part of the country or a different time period, I would be inclined not make the same judgement.

Any opinions much appreciated

You have not mentioned if she had children,  but assuming she did,  some thoughts:

A)  do you know where her first child was born and does it suggest she went to her parents family home for that birth ?
B)  would there be a naming pattern to her children that can support your theory as to which family she belonged to ?

She lived a long life, 1688 - 1780. 


JM
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Offline trish1120

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Re: Carlyle families of Torthorwald opinions
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 09 February 22 07:28 GMT (UK) »
She sure did live a long life buried 23 Feb 1780 age 92 :)
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Offline Mojo47

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Re: Carlyle families of Torthorwald opinions
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 10 February 22 02:05 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Yes. She was old! From the OPRs

Mary, in Roucan, relict of John Coulter.Was born 1688 (the revolution year) but whether before or after King William came to the throne of England she could not say. She had enjoyed good health for many years only recently became unwell.Died 21st.Aged 92.

Feb 23 1780

As far as children go, I have the following:

Mary (1705-1772) to be proven as daughter but believed probable.

Janet (1711-1781)

John (1714-1781)

Isobel(1728-1776)

Does this help? Any thoughts on naming order.

From the Privy Council Register of 1684 I found the following in the parish.

Halbert CARLEIL ,Kirk Officer there

Michael Carliell there

Bessie Carliell daughter of Adam

John Carliell of Roukine (potential father of Mary?)

James Carleil of Boytath

And in the Dumfriesshire hearth taxes for the same place in 1690/1

Herbert Carlile
Herbert Carlile
John Carlile

Hope this helps



Offline majm

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Re: Carlyle families of Torthorwald opinions
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 10 February 22 02:23 GMT (UK) »
When and where did she marry?

What location do you have for the birthplace of her first born?

That is quite a gap between 1714 and 1728.... could Isobel be her eldest child's daughter?

JM.

Hi,

Yes. She was old! From the OPRs

Mary, in Roucan, relict of John Coulter.Was born 1688 (the revolution year) but whether before or after King William came to the throne of England she could not say. She had enjoyed good health for many years only recently became unwell.Died 21st.Aged 92.

Feb 23 1780

As far as children go, I have the following:

Mary (1705-1772) to be proven as daughter but believed probable.

Janet (1711-1781)

John (1714-1781)

Isobel(1728-1776)

Does this help? Any thoughts on naming order.

From the Privy Council Register of 1684 I found the following in the parish.

Halbert CARLEIL ,Kirk Officer there

Michael Carliell there

Bessie Carliell daughter of Adam

John Carliell of Roukine (potential father of Mary?)

James Carleil of Boytath

And in the Dumfriesshire hearth taxes for the same place in 1690/1

Herbert Carlile
Herbert Carlile
John Carlile

Hope this helps



The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline Mojo47

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Re: Carlyle families of Torthorwald opinions
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 10 February 22 03:15 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

No marriage records for John Coulter and Mary Carlyle.No OPRs for Torthorwald during this period.

The same for probable first born(who isnít fully proven.She married Robert Glassell of Howgate

All other children of Howgate,Roucan.Isobel clearly states John Coulter as father in births and daughter of Mary Carlyle in deaths.

Hope this helps