Brick Wall. Henry and Thomas Mantell, possibly Shropshire and Birmingham.

[yecartmannew]

Happy Saturday everyone.

I have Henry Mantell m. Catherine Alexander on 25th May 1871 in Birmingham. All information I have for Henry is after the marriage, but consensus is that he was born about 1845 in Birmingham (Marriage cert and several census, etc)

I would like to find a birth record for Henry.

Henry's marriage cert lists his father as Thomas Mantell, deceased, Millwright. I cannot find much definitive info for Thomas except an 1841 census record in Hopton Wafers, Shropshire. This does fit with other members of the family that I am trying to connect, so could well be him. Thomas is 65 and no other household members. I can't find Thomas in 1851 or any later census.

So I think Thomas married between 1841 and 1844/45 when Henry was born. (late age marriages seem to be a thing in this family so not completely strange), and died before 1851.

Can anyone offer any guidance or find any information on Thomas, or records for Henry before 1871?

I would be so grateful to smash this wall as it is probably the key to connecting the other family members who are currently "floating".

[JenB]

Henry is a hair dresser in 1861.

RG 9/2161/78/20

In the household of William Pemberton, 240 Newtown Row, Birmingham

Henry Mantell, serv., 15, hair dresser, Warwickshire, Birmingham

[yecartmannew]

Henry is a hair dresser in 1861.

RG 9/2161/78/20

In the household of William Pemberton, 240 Newtown Row, Birmingham

Henry Mantell, serv., 15, hair dresser, Warwickshire, Birmingham

Thank you. This fits perfectly.

[softly softly]

1871 census has Henry born in France??

Piece number 2973
Birth county -
Folio 14
Birth county as transcribed FRANCE
Page 24
Birth place France
Schedule 103

Occ-Hairdresser

John

[JenB]

1871 census has Henry born in France??

Piece number 2973
Birth county -
Folio 14
Birth county as transcribed FRANCE
Page 24
Birth place France
Schedule 103

Occ-Hairdresser

In which case....

1851 census in Aston Workhouse
HO 107/2062/283/3

James Mantle, pauper, 9, scholar, France
Henry do, do, 4, do do,

[yecartmannew]

1871 census has Henry born in France??

Piece number 2973
Birth county -
Folio 14
Birth county as transcribed FRANCE
Page 24
Birth place France
Schedule 103

Occ-Hairdresser

John

Thanks John, That looks like it probably fits.

[CaroleW]

The 1841 entry for Hopton Wafers you mention - that Thomas was a collier - not a millwright

[yecartmannew]

1871 census has Henry born in France??

Piece number 2973

Hmm, thank you, but it starts to look a bit more unlikely. I know ages on census are approximate, but surely there is quite a differece between a 4 and 6  year old?

I will take a look though. Still need to find some info on  Thomas then and wife , mother for henry
Birth county -
Folio 14
Birth county as transcribed FRANCE
Page 24
Birth place France
Schedule 103

Occ-Hairdresser

In which case....

1851 census in Aston Workhouse
HO 107/2062/283/3

James Mantle, pauper, 9, scholar, France
Henry do, do, 4, do do,

[CaroleW]

I don't know whether WH records for that period are available at the RO.  You could try giving them a ring in case there is any more info on them.