Probate Registry site's response to my feedback

[wilcoxon]

Just curious, but those of you who have had the "No find" response which you've responded to by providing an image from another source (eg Anc., FindMyPast) or a screenshot from the Gov's probate website itself, what was their response?

Have they accepted it and actually acted on it and provided the admin/will in the end, or not?

It is possible to get the URL of the image (or rather the PDF, which contains the image) from the Gov's probate website itself. I'm wondering if providing this may be more of a stick to get them to act on an order.

Just as an example, the URL below is for the Harriet Wilcoxon (1885) in my earlier example post.

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/api/nuxeo/nxfile/default/c695ec03-1e96-4b12-b4d6-cce6232d3aa5/file:content/006453_wilcocks_1885.pdf?changeToken=7-0

Thats a good idea, that link worked. I was wondering though the about William Wilcox,  with 485 at the side of his entry.
Would that be the folio number for that group of names ?

[ajm314159]

I've only seen Folio Number for probate at the Principal Registry.  Are there exceptions?

So the 485 is for the entry it annotates, and for no other on that page.

I've found that since multiple page hits are delivered in random order (as currently) it helps to know the page number (158 in the example) and look for that.  Get the page number from somewhere else. You only need to scan their reverse video images if you're looking for a Folio Number, anyway. Otherwise look it up on Ancestry (or whatever) and go straight to the order form. (Not forgetting to adjust the dates as described above).

[cuffie81]

If anyone is interested in how to get the PDF URL for a search results page, follow the steps below.

Firefox (desktop):
1. Perform a search
2. Open the web browser developer tools, using any of the following:
- F12
- CTRL+SHIFT+I
- Menu > More Tools > Web Developer Tools
3. In the developer tools, select the Network tab
4. Refresh the search results page
5. View developer tools Network panel to see a list of HTTP requests the page made
6. Click the entry that has "PDF" in the Type column (it'll probably be the last entry in the list)
7. The right hand panel will show the details of the request, including the full URL to PDF


Edge & Chrome (desktop):
1. Perform a search
2. Open the web browser developer tools, using any of the following:
- F12
- CTRL+SHIFT+I
- Menu > More Tools > Developer Tools
3. In the developer tools, select the Network tab
4. Refresh the search results page
5. View developer tools Network panel to see a list of HTTP requests the page made
6. Click the entry that has "pdf.js" in the Initiator column (it'll probably be the last entry in the list)
7. The right hand panel will show the details of the request, including the full URL to PDF


Attached are Firefox screenshots of the Dev Tools Network panel. Edge and Chrome are similar.

The Firefox, Edge and Chrome tools also have a handy helper, in that you can double click the File/Name in the Network list and the browser will open the URL (ie the PDF) in a new tab.

If you leave the Dev Tools open, each time you navigate through pages, or perform a search, the Network list will be updated with any new requests. If you end up with a lot of entries in the list you can clear them by clicking the Clear button (the dustbin icon in Firefox and the "no entry" (?) icon in Edge & Chrome).

[cuffie81]

My experience, easily reproduced, is that in taking your Order into the Basket the software mangles the dates you carefully enter, by subtracting one day.

I tried adding one day to the death date and probate date: this caused the correct dates to appear in the Basket. We will see what happens.

ajm, are you still seeing this issue with the dates after adding it to your basket? Giving it a quick test now, the dates listed on my basket items are the same dates I entered on the form.

I'm wondering if they fixed something (I don't think I'll hold my breath though).

PS: And a belated, welcome to RootsChat

[CaroleW]

Earlier this year I had to involve my MP in connection with a completely different issue I had with Probate & I received a letter of apology from the Chief Exec.

So - I have decided to write direct to him about this issue as I doubt we will see much improvement by "giving feedback" & getting the type of gobbledegook response reported in my opening post.

I intend including the links to the 2 threads on this issue in my letter so if anybody wants one last chance to comment - do it now - as I will be asking the moderator to lock this post on Friday

[ajm314159]

Yes, just exactly now trying again, it happened as described: I entered 07 05 1877 and 06 04 1877, and they appeared in my Basket as 6 May 1877 and 7 April 1877.

Android 10 Chrome 99.0.

[cuffie81]

Carole,

You might want to point out to your MP that the new website fails to meet the Government's own "design principles" for their websites.

Government Design Principles - GOV.UK
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/government-design-principles

Pertinent snippet:

Why we care more about effectiveness than efficiency or satisfaction
Effectiveness takes priority

In ISO 9241 terms, we care most about effectiveness - can people use the service to get the right outcome for them?

People come to government to do important things. If they can’t get them done, it can cause significant problems in some aspect of their life or work.

And those problems drive up government costs and stop policies achieving their intent.

https://userresearch.blog.gov.uk/2017/04/18/why-we-care-more-about-effectiveness-than-efficiency-or-satisfaction/

There's a whole team who, in recent years, have been responsible for wrangling Government websites into more usable systems. As far as I understand it, the team aren't responsible for actual implementation of websites (although they do build various frameworks and define guidelines) but I doubt they'd be very happy to see to woeful usability of the new wills/probate website.

GOV.UK Design System team – GOV.UK Design System
https://design-system.service.gov.uk/design-system-team/

[cuffie81]

Yes, just exactly now trying again, it happened as described: I entered 07 05 1877 and 06 04 1877, and they appeared in my Basket as 6 May 1877 and 7 April 1877.

Android 10 Chrome 99.0.

Testing on Win 10 with Firefox & Edge, the dates on the basket entry are as I entered them ie probate: 07 May 1877, death: 06 Apr 1877.

So it looks like it might be an OS + Web browser issue. Or more specifically, their shonky coding and testing.

[cuffie81]

Yes, just exactly now trying again, it happened as described: I entered 07 05 1877 and 06 04 1877, and they appeared in my Basket as 6 May 1877 and 7 April 1877.

Android 10 Chrome 99.0.

Testing on Win 10 with Firefox & Edge, the dates on the basket entry are as I entered them ie probate: 07 May 1877, death: 06 Apr 1877.

Testing on Android 10 with Firefox 98.2.0, the dates on the basket entry are as I entered them. I don't have Chrome installed to test (and I'd rather not install it).