McManus's - Sunderland/Ireland

[Northumberland1981]

Hi Everyone,
I have been researching my family history for several years now, but I am struggling with one particular branch of my family tree. My paternal great grandmother, Honora McManus (later Hann and then Matthews after WW1). She was born in February 1877, Bishopwearmouth to Patrick McManus and Catherine Dignan. I have attached Honora's birth certificate. So far, so good...

Where I am struggling is tracing back further the lines of Patrick and Catherine. Patrick based on Census records was born around 1828 in Roscommon Ireland and Catherine around 1842, also from Ireland - beyond that I am just struggling to find anything about them both.
I can't find deaths recorded in England that tie up with their supposed birth years, nor can I find anything to confirm their actual place of birth of year of birth.
I know dating things isn't always an exact science, but I just don't seem to able to get records to match up with one another.
I've managed to trace family lines in Belgium, The United States and Australia, but I am really struggling with this. I was wondering if anyone out there would be able to help as I am pulling my hair out with this one.

[Tickettyboo]

It will help if you can tell us which census records you can find for this family and where they were living so we can get an idea of how many children they had , where and when they were born and which census has the latest sightings of the parents.

From that info we may be able to see if we can find a death for the parents and may be able to see if they were married in England or maybe back in Ireland.

Boo

[Tickettyboo]

hmm there is a marriage in Q1 1860 Sunderland District for a Patrick McManus and Catherine "Digman" . The certificate would give you their fathers' names and occupations which may help to find baptisms in Ireland.
ADDED I checked the Sunderland Registrars site (as unlike the GRO index which gives all the names on the page, it tells which groom married which bride) and that confirms that Patrick McManus and Catherine "Digman" were the relevant couple. The local registrars ref was M12/150. I know that another Rootschatter may be able to tell us which church that was (or if it was a register office marriage) so have sent a message asking if they can help with that ref.


Boo

[jonw65]

Couple of baptisms in Sunderland
Margarita McManus born 4 Jan 1862
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NLZT-4GM

Maria McManus, born 11 Feb 1865
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQKB-22Q

Births of those two
MCMANUS, MARGARET       
Mother's Maiden Surname: DIGNAN 
GRO Reference: 1862  M Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 416

MCMANUS, MARY       
Mother's Maiden Surname: DIGNAN 
GRO Reference: 1865  M Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 469

I think Margaret died not long after

Is Patrick sometimes recorded as John McManus in the census?
He seems to be in 1871
There is a daughter Elizabeth A, 4, born Ireland

1881 at 25 Spring Garden Lane (he is Patrick this time!)
Eliza A McManis, 14, born Ireland

Here's the birth reg of Eliza Anne McManus
Born 10 Jan 1867 in Carrowcashel in the parish of Kilmactranny, Sligo
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1867/03493/2283676.pdf

Informant Anne Dignan, present at birth.

In the 1881 census at 22 Spring Garden Lane, Margaret Dignon, 63, born Ireland, daughter Ann Dignon, 25, born Sunderland. A servant, Mary McManis, 17, born Sunderland.
Any connection?
Is it the same Mary we see with Patrick and Catherine further down the page? (I may be being silly!)

I agree with Boo that the marriage certificate is the way to go.
I haven't been asked, but it is in the registrar's book (or one of them!) Only the cert will tell you if it was at the RO, or at a non parish church place of worship (presumably catholic) with a registrar in attendance.

[jonw65]

MCMANUS, MARGARET       
Age at Death (in years): 1 
GRO Reference: 1863  S Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 223

Here's her burial at Bishopwearmouth Cemetery
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-6HCS

1 August 1863
Margaret McManus, Daughter of John McManus, Boilersmith
Age 1½
Death occurred 1 Dock Street.

Patrick or John?

[jonw65]

A son John
Birth
MCMANUS, JOHN       
Mother's Maiden Surname: DIGNAN 
GRO Reference: 1864  M Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 442

Death
MCMANUS, JOHN       
Age at Death (in years): 0 
GRO Reference: 1864  M Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 249

Burial at Bishopwearmouth Cemetery, 15 Feb 1864
John McManus
Son of John McManus, Boilermaker
Age 2 weeks
Death occurred Dock Street
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-6H9S

[jonw65]

Any chance they could be McMann in 1861?
Piece 3765 folio 37 page 22
16 Garden Street, Bishopwearmouth
John McMann Head Married 29 Boiler Smith, born Ireland
Catherine McMan(!) Wife Married 23 Ireland

[fiddlerslass]

Death on Durham records online
Catherine McManus b. 1841 , abode Spring Garden Lane  1889 cemetery registers

[fiddlerslass]

1891 census  6 Cross Place , Sunderland  appears as John McManus, widower age 53 Plater born Roscommon.

Cross Place is just off George street.

Durham records online has cemetery reg Sunderland John McManus b. 1830 abode Cross George Street death 1891, could be him.