Author Topic: The Royal Chelsea Hospital and pensions:  (Read 707 times)

Offline Iain...

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Re: The Royal Chelsea Hospital and pensions:
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 19 April 22 14:29 BST (UK) »
Lol…  Your research certainly makes a mockery of my efforts at genealogy. 

Good Lord…, this is going to upset someone’s applecart.  Reminds me of my Canadian paternal Grandfather abandoning my father and uncle after WW2.  Of course, the family of his future wife in America was totally unaware of my existence. 

I think I’ll take a day off from writing tomorrow and try to get my head around it all.  ;)
Thanks UKgirl…
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Offline UKgirl

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Re: The Royal Chelsea Hospital and pensions:
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 19 April 22 22:41 BST (UK) »
Abode of Newburgh offers possible corroboration that these men are the same man.

Peter Spenser in Legal documents
Abode = Newburgh

1793 Apr 8
Marriage in Ormskirk, St. Peter & St. Paul
Peter Spencer & Ann Disley
Abode = both of this parish

1796 Aug 25
Burial in Ormskirk, St. Peter & St. Paul
Peter Spencer, son of Peter Spencer
Abode = Newburgh
(child's age not given)

Details can be freely seen on FreeReg and also on Lancashire Online Parish Clerk.

Ancestry burial image:
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2478/images/4199658_02287?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=c1a78d921ba95d04f65ded9300aed49e&usePUB=true&_phsrc=ADs2592&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=4415848
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline UKgirl

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Re: The Royal Chelsea Hospital and pensions:
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 20 April 22 00:27 BST (UK) »
Good morning, Iain

Blindness from fever may have been temporary?
Even if permanent, it is not a reason for death, is it?
Would a blind patient remain permanently in the Royal Hospital Chelsea? Does anybody know that?

If he went back to Leigh, perhaps he would still call himself a Weaver when he got married, even if he was no longer weaving, since that had been his occupation?

And he would have a pension, so not impoverished?

I am wondering, because of the following:

In Chowbent, there is a Richard Hampson who was so determined to have a daughter called Faith, that he named 2 x daughters Faith after the death of the first Faith.

If the name was so important to him, it may suggest that he was Richard, the son of Faith Hampson?

What do you think?

1821 Feb 7 - Admitted to Royal Hospital Chelsea

1821 Oct 21 – Marriage in Leigh, St Mary the Virgin
Richard Hampson (Weaver) & Jane Tonge
Both of Leigh Parish

The following 3 baptisms were all conducted at the Protestant Dissenting Chapel, Chowbent

Parents = Richard & Jane Hampson
Abode = Atherton

1821 Dec 17 birth John Hampson – baptised 1824 Apr 18, Abode = Atherton
1824 Apr 3 birth Faith Hampson – baptised 1824 Apr 18, Abode = Atherton
1824 Nov 28 burial Faith Hampson aged 7 mo – Daughter of Richd Hampson & Jane
Abode = Atherton, burial in Atherton, St. John the Baptist
1825 Nov 10 birth Faith Hampson – baptised 1825 Nov 27, Abode = Atherton

I found these on Lancashire Online Parish Clerk
https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/

It is much quicker than searching through Ancestry pages.
After you find something, then you can go and look at Ancestry to see the actual image.

I believe all these images are on Ancestry.

e.g.
1825 Faith Hampson birth & baptism
Chowbent Unitarian Chapel
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/3758/images/41501_605905_0804-00108?pId=243338

UKgirl

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline UKgirl

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Re: The Royal Chelsea Hospital and pensions:
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 20 April 22 12:45 BST (UK) »
Hello again,

You began this thread by looking for the death of Richard Hampson.
Did you find it?

I think that you have seen this document on Ancestry:
Royal Hospital Chelsea, Regimental Register of Pensioners, 1713 – 1882
Foot Guards 1806-1838
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/3255/images/40941_311890-00330?ssrc=&backlabel=Return&pId=528261

Richd  Hampson
7 Feb 1821
This is clearly marked as Date of Admission to the hospital.
Disappointingly, there is no mention of death.
My own ancestor (not a Foot Guard) appears in this same Register, but his death several years after his retirement is clearly noted in the Register.

As Richard was only 28, he may have lived for many more years after 1821.

Of interest, his appearance:
Brown hair
Blue eyes
Fair complexion

Height difficult to read:
5ft 3 1/2
5ft 5 ½

*****

Death dates of Foot Guards who were Chelsea Pensioners are mentioned in the following record:

UK, Royal Hospital, Chelsea: Regimental Registers of Pensioners, 1713-1882
Regimental Registers of Pensioners
Foot Guards 1814-1857
There are 137 pages.

3rd Regiment of Foot Guards:
Pages 97 – 128 (of 137 pages)

Starting page for 3rd Regiment of Foot Guards:
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/3255/images/40941_311901-00307?ssrc=&backlabel=Return&pId=528261

Preceded by Coldstream Guards until Page 96 of 137
Followed by Scots Fusilier Guards from Page 129 of 137

It includes men who were admitted as early as 1814 and deaths noted some as late as the 1870’s.

Even if your Richard Hampson is not included in this list, you may find the names of other soldiers that you are researching?

UKgirl
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Iain...

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Re: The Royal Chelsea Hospital and pensions:
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 20 April 22 14:29 BST (UK) »
Good afternoon UKgirl.  Amazing…, you’d make a superb battlefield detective.   I’m only able to do it because I have my feet on the ground. (I live nearby)   
Lol…, Agatha Christy could have had a best seller with this.   

I think your reasoning concerning Richard is more than logical.  Ancestry provides a hint for ‘a’ Faith Hampson’s death one year later…, but I prefer to wait. 
In the meantime, when Richard got to an age where he was able to think clearly for himself, he’d have been told about his ‘fugitive’ father, and that would have cemented the love for his mother…, Faith-Faith-Faith-Faith.
I’m starting to feel sorry for the poor fellow…, you cannot imagine the luck he had to allow him his Waterloo Medal, and it’s a regimental comfort to know he must have had the same professionalism as the Corporal who saved his life. (the one who received 300 lashes)  Twenty-one years later, his CO ‘apologized.’ 

There is a Jane Tonge marriage on 21 Oct 1821.  If this is her, then she was expecting son John for the past 8-months…, just after Richard’s release from Chelsea.   
I also found a Jane ‘Hampson’ as a shopkeeper, and she’s next to a Richard Hampson who is a cotton merchant, but different addresses.  Coincidence has it that they have another two Hampsons nearby as a dyer and weaver.

I’ve put up a tree for him on Ancestry, but there are obviously mistakes.   
https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/182403820/person/182372092815/facts

There are descendants (lol - Shaun) out there, but so far, they’re playing hide and seek.
Thank you UKgirl.

PS  Just noticed a new post..., will have a look ASP.     
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Offline Iain...

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Re: The Royal Chelsea Hospital and pensions:
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 20 April 22 14:38 BST (UK) »
Hello again,

You began this thread by looking for the death of Richard Hampson.
Did you find it?   >>>>> ..., no, not yet.

Even if your Richard Hampson is not included in this list, you may find the names of other soldiers that you are researching?   >>>>> ...., I'm going to have fun with this.   ;)

UKgirl
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Offline UKgirl

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Re: The Royal Chelsea Hospital and pensions:
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 20 April 22 16:57 BST (UK) »
By the way, all my Ancestry links are .com
If you want to see them, you might have to change the .com to .co.uk

Re. Faith Hampson

It is not such common name. I too noticed the death of Faith Hampson soon after Richard’s birth.

I have a theory – it’s a bit unusual, but that doesn’t mean that it is impossible.

Here goes:
From Lancashire opc – free to view on the Internet:

Baptism: 14 Nov 1762 St John the Baptist, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Faith Hampson - Daughter of Margaret Hampson
    Abode: Atherton
    Notes: Base (born)

Baptism: 12 May 1793 St Mary the Virgin, Leigh, Lancashire, England
Richard Hampson - Son of Faith Hampson
    Abode: Atherton
    Notes: Base (born)
   
Then there is this, which is the death that you saw as a hint on Ancestry:

Burial: 8 Apr 1796 St John the Baptist, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Faith Hamson Allred - Base born Daughter of Margaret Allred
    Abode: Atherton   

BUT, if you look at the actual image on Ancestry, that is NOT what it says.

https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/1218217:2959?tid=&pid=&queryId=7c655eca08338b557b0e1ecb1b354864&_phsrc=ADs2607&_phstart=successSource

It says:
Burials at Atherton Chapel
1796 April 8th Faith Hampson D of Margaret Allred (difficult to read) of Atherton

If it was the burial of a legitimate baby/child, then it would give the father’s name. But, it doesn’t.
If it was the burial of an illegitimate baby/child, then it would give the mother’s name, and the family name of both persons would surely be the same? But, they aren’t.
Lancashire opc has treated the Hampson bit as a middle name, but that’s just their conclusion, not necessarily fact.

What if it was the burial of an adult woman, with no husband, and who had been an illegitimate daughter, but whose mother had since married?

i.e. mother Margaret Hampson had since become Margaret Allred?

If the 3 x Faith Hampsons were the same, she would have been about 31 when Richard was born and about 34 when she died.

I think that it is extremely rare for an adult woman to be buried with her mother’s name mentioned.
But it simply cannot be an illegitimate child because the family names are not the same and it can’t be a legitimate child because there is no father’s name.

I think that it is a rare case, but on the same page, it seems as if every dead human has a description next to their name.

Since they couldn’t write wife of ****, they put the next best thing, D of ****

That’s my theory. If correct, it was an act of kindness, but has more than a touch of tragedy about it, don’t you think?

Grasping at straws?

As proof, we would have to find a marriage between a Margaret Hampson and a Mr. Allred (or something sounding similar) between 1762 and 1796.

****
Nicknames for Margaret:
Maggie, Peggy, etc.

From Lancashire opc

Marriage: 18 Dec 1774 St Mary the Virgin, Leigh, Lancashire, England
Henry Alldred - (X), Nailor, Atherton, Leigh Parish
Peggy Hampson - (X), Spinster, Atherton, Leigh Parish
Witness: Isaac Turner; Richard Charlson
Banns Read: 15 May 1774, 2nd: 22 May 1774, 3rd: 13 Nov 1774
Married by Banns by: John Barlow Vicar

Image:
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2962/images/40364_636672_2422-00026?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=9ecd22dd8f1f9eb19d018e6e69078456&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&pId=7164807 

Faith was 12 years old at the time of that marriage.

UKgirl
P.S. I didn't find any other children born to Faith Hampson - just Richard.
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Offline Iain...

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Re: The Royal Chelsea Hospital and pensions:
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 20 April 22 18:33 BST (UK) »
Ooooof..., as they say in French.  You must work for Scotland yard.
Losing focus with my manuscript..., but it's worth it.

I'm absent on-and-off for the next couple of days, however, I'll certainly get back to you very soon.

Lovely weather here in Belgium.  Kind Regards..., Iain. 
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Offline UKgirl

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Re: The Royal Chelsea Hospital and pensions:
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 21 April 22 14:07 BST (UK) »
Hello Iain,

Scarily, I found that your Richard Hampson, mother Faith, died in 1793.

https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/7224894:9840?_phsrc=ADs2693&_phstart=successSource&gsfn=richard&gsln=hampson&ml_rpos=2&queryId=a4bd88430d85ee292e0aa736cc36b66e

After recovering from a huge disappointment, I then confirmed that this is nonsense by checking the burial images for Leigh, St. Mary.

So, if that burial record pops up before your eyes as a hint, you have no need to worry and can confidently dismiss it as rubbish.

see:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=861383.msg7306140

UKgirl
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk