Author Topic: Alexander Ingram & Anne Duncan- Help to find deaths please  (Read 6732 times)

Offline KitCarson

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Alexander Ingram & Anne Duncan- Help to find deaths please
« on: Sunday 01 May 22 14:53 BST (UK) »
Alexander and Anne are my husband's 4G Grandparents.

Alexander and Anne Duncan married at Keith on 25 August 1795.  Anne was off this Parish and Alexander from 'Cairney'. No occupation for Alexander and the witnesses do not appear to be related.

Alexander and Anne have, to my knowledge from ScotlandsPeople, 3 children:
Jean 24 July 1796 Ruthven Bapt Cairnie
Anne 12 May 1798 Ruthven Bapt Cairnie
James 11 Apr 1800 Ruthven (3GGF) who died 16 Nov 1857 in Keith, Bannfshire
Anne and James were baptised on the same day (no date on record but sometime in May 1801)
No father's occupation listed on any record

The only witness which may be related is for James, who had a James Duncan in Craigton listed.

I find son James in the 1841c Farming at Aulthash Nr Bellie, Moray. Also on that page at Aulthas is an Anne Ingram aged 68 of Independent Means.  It's blank where it should give an indication of whether 'Born in County'.

Links to Aulthash:
NLS - https://maps.nls.uk/view/75202987
Google Street View - https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@57.5872159,-3.0478066,3a,75y,24.39h,77.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqAoAVi0T5cawz2PqN3CInA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

By 1851 James has moved with his family to Keith and is a Vintner and Carter aged 50.

I can’t find burial records for either Alexander or Anne Ingram and I wondered if anyone could point me in a different direction than ScotlandsPeople.  BTW, the Alexander Ingram d. 1829 is a child of North Keith, so not our Alexander.

I've tried looking for Wills as if that is Anne in the 1841c, to whom did she leave her money/assets?

Sorry if the 2nd link is quite long but I have no idea how to shorten it.

Once again, all help appreciated.

Kit
Rimmer/Appleton/Ashcroft: St Helens, Lancs // Cul(le)y:St Helens & Little Bolton // Stott: Huyton Quarry & Sutton, Lancs
Carson:Belfast? & St Helens // Kelly:Mullingar, West Meath? & St Helens // Ronan: Ferns, Wexford & St Helens // Daley:Oranmore & Athenry, Co Galway //
Cunningham: Heworth, Gateshead & Widnes & St Helens, originating Ireland
Edgar: Bellie, Moray // Anderson: Selkirk // Rutherford: Hobkirk, Roxburghshire //
Stewart: Angus // Watson: Moray & Jamaica // Watt: Cairnie

Offline Kiltaglassan

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Re: Alexander Ingram & Anne Duncan- Help to find deaths please
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 01 May 22 15:04 BST (UK) »

Sorry if the 2nd link is quite long but I have no idea how to shorten it.


Just use the RootsChat shrinklink for that long link.

https://www.rootschat.com/links/

Researching: Cuthbertson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Australia; Hunter – Co. Derry; Jackson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Canada; Scott – Co. Derry; Neilly – Co. Antrim & USA; McCurdy – Co. Antrim; Nixon – Co. Cavan, Co. Donegal, Canada & USA; Ryan & Noble – Co. Sligo

Offline KitCarson

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Re: Alexander Ingram & Anne Duncan- Help to find deaths please
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 01 May 22 15:06 BST (UK) »
Fantastic, thanks Kiltaglassan.  I hope I remember for future posts.

Kit
Rimmer/Appleton/Ashcroft: St Helens, Lancs // Cul(le)y:St Helens & Little Bolton // Stott: Huyton Quarry & Sutton, Lancs
Carson:Belfast? & St Helens // Kelly:Mullingar, West Meath? & St Helens // Ronan: Ferns, Wexford & St Helens // Daley:Oranmore & Athenry, Co Galway //
Cunningham: Heworth, Gateshead & Widnes & St Helens, originating Ireland
Edgar: Bellie, Moray // Anderson: Selkirk // Rutherford: Hobkirk, Roxburghshire //
Stewart: Angus // Watson: Moray & Jamaica // Watt: Cairnie

Offline Kiltaglassan

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Re: Alexander Ingram & Anne Duncan- Help to find deaths please
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 01 May 22 15:25 BST (UK) »
I hope I remember for future posts.

It's at the bottom of the main RootsChat Page (dark brown area).

KG

Researching: Cuthbertson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Australia; Hunter – Co. Derry; Jackson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Canada; Scott – Co. Derry; Neilly – Co. Antrim & USA; McCurdy – Co. Antrim; Nixon – Co. Cavan, Co. Donegal, Canada & USA; Ryan & Noble – Co. Sligo


Offline Forfarian

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Re: Alexander Ingram & Anne Duncan- Help to find deaths please
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 01 May 22 21:30 BST (UK) »
Deaths before 1855, and burials, are not always easy to find.

Have you tried LIBINDX http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp ? It has details from all gravestones in the present district of Moray which were legible in 1978/1979, and also an index to older burials in Keith.

Some photographs of Aulthash at https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ3755
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline KitCarson

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Re: Alexander Ingram & Anne Duncan- Help to find deaths please
« Reply #5 on: Monday 02 May 22 09:59 BST (UK) »
Thanks for reminding me about Libindx and for the images of Aulthash, including some of your own?  Out of curiosity I've done a little googling.  To have a church like that and stories around the bell peeling, it would seem that the area around Ruthven must have been well populated at one time.  There appears to be very little in the area now.

Kit

Rimmer/Appleton/Ashcroft: St Helens, Lancs // Cul(le)y:St Helens & Little Bolton // Stott: Huyton Quarry & Sutton, Lancs
Carson:Belfast? & St Helens // Kelly:Mullingar, West Meath? & St Helens // Ronan: Ferns, Wexford & St Helens // Daley:Oranmore & Athenry, Co Galway //
Cunningham: Heworth, Gateshead & Widnes & St Helens, originating Ireland
Edgar: Bellie, Moray // Anderson: Selkirk // Rutherford: Hobkirk, Roxburghshire //
Stewart: Angus // Watson: Moray & Jamaica // Watt: Cairnie

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Alexander Ingram & Anne Duncan- Help to find deaths please
« Reply #6 on: Monday 02 May 22 10:25 BST (UK) »
Ruthven is a very small village in the parish of Cairney or Cairnie.

Not sure what you mean by peeling, but is the bell perhaps the Wow of Rivan? (Ruthven is pronounced as 'riven')
See https://canmore.org.uk/site/17849/ruthven-old-parish-church-and-burial-ground

Though it's not clear (to me at any rate) when the kirk at Ruthven was abandoned, it's shown as a ruin on the first edition of the six-inch Ordnance Survey map https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=57.50965&lon=-2.82437&layers=5&b=1

It looks as if the old parishes of Ruthven, Botary and part of Drumdelgie were united with the parish of Cairnie in 1618 so perhaps the kirk in Ruthven fell into ruin before the 1790s. In any case it's never safe to assume that a baptism (or for that matter a wedding) took place in the actual kirk building.

Photographs of Ruthven https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ5046
Cairnie Kirk https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ4844
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline KitCarson

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Re: Alexander Ingram & Anne Duncan- Help to find deaths please
« Reply #7 on: Monday 02 May 22 15:37 BST (UK) »
By 1800 there may then have been a cluster of small farms, with the Church out of use and dilapidated already hence the baptisms at Cairnie, as I mentioned.

Thanks for your input and insight.

Kit
Rimmer/Appleton/Ashcroft: St Helens, Lancs // Cul(le)y:St Helens & Little Bolton // Stott: Huyton Quarry & Sutton, Lancs
Carson:Belfast? & St Helens // Kelly:Mullingar, West Meath? & St Helens // Ronan: Ferns, Wexford & St Helens // Daley:Oranmore & Athenry, Co Galway //
Cunningham: Heworth, Gateshead & Widnes & St Helens, originating Ireland
Edgar: Bellie, Moray // Anderson: Selkirk // Rutherford: Hobkirk, Roxburghshire //
Stewart: Angus // Watson: Moray & Jamaica // Watt: Cairnie

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Alexander Ingram & Anne Duncan- Help to find deaths please
« Reply #8 on: Monday 02 May 22 15:44 BST (UK) »
it's never safe to assume that a baptism (or for that matter a wedding) took place in the actual kirk building.
The children might have been baptised in their parents' home. This was quite common, especially when the home was some distance from the kirk. If the original records say 'in the church' or say that the congregation witnessed the baptism, then it did take place in the kirk. Otherwise you can't assume that it did. If the date of baptism was not on a Sunday it is more likely to have been in the home.

Ruthven is in the parish of Cairnie, so the baptisms would be recorded in that parish register irrespective of where in the parish the ceremony was held.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.