HELP finding: BRETT, John & SMITH, Mary Priscilla

[V1747P]

Hi,

I’m looking for some help in finding my grandmother’s great-grandparents, John Brett, born abt. 1836 and Mary Priscilla Smith, born 1840, they were married in 1861 and lived together before then, I can see them in later censuses, and believe I have found them in the 1861 census with her listed as ‘Priscilla Smith’ and his housekeeper, as there is a Sarah Ann Churchward further up the same page who was witness at their wedding, from the marriage document I know that her father was William Smith, Bricklayer, (note of interest, in the 1861 census there is also a William Smith listed as a son in the household which only contains John Brett and his housekeeper, Priscilla Smith), and his was Thomas Brett, stone mason, however I’m struggling to find any earlier details for either of them, their mother’s names, etc, and am at a dead end. I can see them in the 1881 census living in ‘Mary Priscilla cottage’ in Peel Road, Woodford, which is located between caravans, and my Nan has confirmed that her great parents/ earlier gens were travellers, which isn’t helping the search, so am just looking for any help wherever possible really if anybody has also come across/ had any complications with these?

Thanks in advance

[PaulineJ]

Hold your horses.

Particularly with a name like "Smith" we need to have some geography.

What town, county and census ref can they be found at in 1861?

is this the correct 1881? https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27D-QMBF

1871: RG10 Piece number 1637 Folio 67
John   Brett    StoneMason   37   b 1834      Middlesex, Dowgate Hill? England
Mary P Brett      28   b 1843      Hertfordshire, Bull's Mill? England


DOWGATE HILL, City: LONDON. LONDON. Postcode(s): EC4R 2SU

Bullsmill Lane, Hertford, SG14 2RF may be relevant to her birthplace

Marriage 3rd qtr 1861 Hackney.
You have seen the marriage certificate, so what parental information is on there?

Pauline

[V1747P]

Hold your horses.

Particularly with a name like "Smith" we need to have some geography.

What town, county and census ref can they be found at in 1861?

is this the correct 1881? https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27D-QMBF

Pauline

Right, that might have helped, sorry!
In the 1861 census they’re living at 55 Higham Hill Common, Walthamstow, in their marriage listing of July of the same year, they’re living at 11 Bridge Street, Homerton. John Brett was born in Middlesex, and Mary Priscilla Smith in 1840, Hertfordshire (noted on one census as Bulls Mill).
Census ref I’m struggling with, where would I see that, please?

Yep, that looks like the one

Thanks
Vicky

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Mary's father is William, a bricklayer

John's is Thomas, a mason

Both bride and groom made their mark

witnesses  ?? Brett and Sarah Ann Churchward - who signed (rather shakily, in the former's case)

[Annette7]

Think you'll find that in 1861 John Brett is living next door to his father Thomas.

Whilst not with family in 1851 he could have been away as an apprentice.

However, I think he was older than he admitted to as in 1841 Census in Bethnal Green he is listed as 9 years old i.e. bc.1832, one of 7 children, all of whom are stated to have been born in Middlesex but cannot find baptisms for any of them.   The 2 youngest children in 1841 - Henry and Daniel - are listed on GRO index with mmn Nairn.   Also, in 1841 wife is shown as Sarah, but in 1851 Elizabeth.   I think they are the same person.

Thomas Brett married Elizabeth Nairn 7/2/1820 St. Mary Newington, Southwark (her surname transcribed on Ancestry as Neairn but definitely looks like Nairn to me).

However, struck out on trying to find anything on Mary Priscilla Smith born Hertfordshire.

Annette



     

[StefanD99]

Hi, Vicky,
If Mary's birthplace was the town of Hertford, there were places called Balls Hill (easily mistaken for Bulls Mill), Balls Wood and Balls Park (still exists). Can't see a Balls Mill.
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=15.820833333333333&lat=51.79367&lon=-0.06621&layers=6&right=BingHyb

There was a mill near to Balls Park, that is later referred to as Horns Mill. I only mention it because in 1840 Brickendon Poor House was next door (still exists).
https://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/maps/?layer=europe&xMin=3312315.96705&yMin=2805544.76650&xMax=3349315.96705&yMax=2842544.76650

https://www.workhouses.org.uk/Hertford/

Stefan

[StefanD99]

Hi, again.
There is a Bulls Mill, Hertfordshire, between Waterford and Stapleford, here;
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=14.697392645547424&lat=51.82866&lon=-0.09828&layers=6&right=BingHyb

Stefan