Author Topic: Baffled with a word cropping up on High Court documents in 1655 & 1656  (Read 425 times)

Offline Andy_T

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I just transcribed a document relating to a dispute in a village where I was born and it relates to a case brought by one lord of the manor against the neighboring lord of the manor in the next village. The first one bought mills and property but was having access problems to his mills across the others land and there was also a boundary dispute. The plaintiff took his complaint to the high court but the defendant claimed he held an IOU or promissory note for money he was owed for the mills and houses.
In both documents a word keeps cropping up that looks like Orito, Oritod or Oratord?

I think this word related to the IOU or promissory note but I can't find anything like the word in on-line dictionaries.
I attached some snips of the word here and hope someone could enlighten me about the spelling and definition of this word?

Thanks in anticipation.
Andy_T

 
Thurman, Coleman, Beck, Shaw

Online ShaunJ

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Re: Baffled with a word cropping up on High Court documents in 1655 & 1656
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 03 May 22 09:25 BST (UK) »
A bit of latin perhaps? Orato = spoken, or something similar?
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Offline GR2

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Re: Baffled with a word cropping up on High Court documents in 1655 & 1656
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 03 May 22 09:53 BST (UK) »
Does orator = plaintiff make sense in the various contexts?

Offline Watson

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Re: Baffled with a word cropping up on High Court documents in 1655 & 1656
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 03 May 22 09:57 BST (UK) »
I think the word is "Orator".  As I recall from reading Chancery documents, it is a standard way for a counsel to introduce himself, e.g. "Your humble orator ..."


Offline Andy_T

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Re: Baffled with a word cropping up on High Court documents in 1655 & 1656
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 03 May 22 10:13 BST (UK) »
Thanks ShaunJ

I did think about Orator, meaning verbal or spoken, but I thought it would be a written promise not a verbal one.

I transcribed at begining of plaintiff's script to put the word into context:
"Humbly complaining thereof unto your Lord, Tipps(?) Thomas Godbehere of Derleigh in the county of Derby yont that whereas on about the eighth day of June last pass John Mundy of Markeaton in this said County of Derby Esq came unto ye said place created(?) then portended unto you his oratord"

Andy_T

 
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Offline Andy_T

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Re: Baffled with a word cropping up on High Court documents in 1655 & 1656
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 03 May 22 10:20 BST (UK) »
Also another part I sort of transcribed where the word keeps cropping up:

"Also the Deede and assurance promise(?) made by the said William Bullock by the said John Mundy was liberties was liborised ye on the said day to bee delivered onto the said oratod and the other eight hundred and fifty pounds was to be paid off a retaining fund after your said Oratod did not nor roomed(?) nor attest(?) to contract of bargains(?) with him unto insofar said oriod and might have the said Deed and constrains for portended to bee made by the said William Bullock unto him the said John Mundy did declare and approve himself your said Oritod rooms(?) not contract of carrying(?)"
Thurman, Coleman, Beck, Shaw

Offline JenB

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Re: Baffled with a word cropping up on High Court documents in 1655 & 1656
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 03 May 22 11:16 BST (UK) »
I think the flourish at the end of the word would most likely represent the letters 'ur' so the word would be 'oratour', in other words 'orator' as already mentioned by GR" and Watson.

Or possibly its just a superscript 'r' for some reason  :-\
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Offline Watson

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Re: Baffled with a word cropping up on High Court documents in 1655 & 1656
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 03 May 22 11:51 BST (UK) »
I'm pretty sure the word is "Orator", and I see GR2 also suggested it and notes that it means specifically the plaintiff.  Andy's reason for rejecting "Orator" seems wrong to me, as I believe it applies to written communication as well as spoken.

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Baffled with a word cropping up on High Court documents in 1655 & 1656
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 03 May 22 14:19 BST (UK) »
Those who have said Orato(ur) or Orato(r) = the complainant/plaintiff are correct.

However, note that the word by itself on the second line of your examples is:  unto

I transcribed at begining of plaintiff's script to put the word into context:
"Humbly complaining thereof unto your Lord, Tipps(?) Thomas Godbehere...

Here, therof is almost certainly Sheweth; and Tipps almost certainly Shipp or Shipps.

Attached is the opening of a Chancery Bill from 1674 displaying the standard form of words used (with small variations) for hundreds of years.  Here Orator isn't contracted.

Looking at your transcripts, it would be a good idea to post clips of the parts where you are unsure.