Author Topic: had in hand the reputed issues of Ness and Chewardine  (Read 301 times)

Offline BronwenS

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had in hand the reputed issues of Ness and Chewardine
« on: Friday 20 May 22 08:37 BST (UK) »
Kia ora

What does this actually mean:  The latter event took place in 1177-78.  At Michaelmas 1178 Guy le Strange, Sheriff of Shropshire, had in hand the reputed issues of Ness and Cheswardine, obviously because his brother's son had not obtained livery, but before Michaelmas 1179 he had handed over the sum to 'John son of John le Strange.'

The phrase in the subject line, I do get the rest of it. 

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Bronwen Summers
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Offline Stanwix England

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Re: had in hand the reputed issues of Ness and Chewardine
« Reply #1 on: Friday 20 May 22 15:59 BST (UK) »
That is really confusingly worded isn't it. I'm not sure I understand what any of it means!

I went and read the whole chapter to see if I could get some context and I'm still not 100% the wiser.

I think it's confusing because the author seems to use different meanings of the word 'issue'. Issue meaning child of, but also, issue meaning the resulting income of a piece of land? I think so anyway, not sure.

So I think that in this case, what they are saying is that when John le Strange died, part of his property (which seems to have originally come from his wife as suggested in the previous paragraphs) was briefly left to his brother George le Strange. So he had 'Ness and Cheswardine' in his hands, so to speak. Then about a year later, he handed that money to his nephew, John le Strange the younger.

That's just my interpretation though. I'm really not sure.
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Offline Little Nell

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Re: had in hand the reputed issues of Ness and Chewardine
« Reply #2 on: Friday 20 May 22 16:05 BST (UK) »
I think it means that Guy le Strange received the moneys raised from rents or any profits arising from the lands of Ness and Chewardine, probably while his nephew was under age.  This is common in medieval times.  A relative or guardian of a minor, or the feoffees is the deceased appointed any, received such sums. 

Nell
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Offline hanes teulu

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Re: had in hand the reputed issues of Ness and Chewardine
« Reply #3 on: Friday 20 May 22 19:42 BST (UK) »
Not sure if this contributes but -

"Magnia Britannia et Hibernia, antiqua & nova. Or a new survey of Great Britain...", Thomas Fox, 1720-1731

"Cheswerden or Cheswardyne, a Manor belonging to the Crown, till King Henry II gave it to John le Strange, Brother of Hamond le Strange, the son of Guy le Strange a younger son of the Duke of Britain. He held it of the King by the service of one Knight's Fee and a half, as it was certified upon assessing an Aid for the marriage of that King's daughter. In this family it continued several Successions and another John, 7 Edw III obtained a Charter of Free Warren in all his demesne lands here; ..."
S. Wales, Somerset, Devon - Oxenham

Aberavon - Hopkin/s, Jenkins, Thomas
St. Brides/Wick - Jenkins
Llanblethian -  Price
Abergwynfi -  Han(d)ford
Pontardawe -  Lewis.


Offline BronwenS

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Re: had in hand the reputed issues of Ness and Chewardine
« Reply #4 on: Friday 20 May 22 20:47 BST (UK) »
So looking at all this, he managed it and collected the rent until his brother's son was of age and then the brother's son took over?

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Campbell, McKenzie, Ross, MacKay, Munro, Sutherland all of Ross & Comarty
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Erskine, Fletcher of Edinburgh

Offline Little Nell

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Re: had in hand the reputed issues of Ness and Chewardine
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 25 May 22 21:25 BST (UK) »
Yes, I think so.

Nell
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Offline BronwenS

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Re: had in hand the reputed issues of Ness and Chewardine
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 25 May 22 22:15 BST (UK) »
Many thanks.
Campbell, McKenzie, Ross, MacKay, Munro, Sutherland all of Ross & Comarty
Barry, Gibson, Watson, Summers, Edmonstone, Brock, McCartney all of Glasgow and environs
Erskine, Fletcher of Edinburgh