Author Topic: 1939 register queries  (Read 933 times)

Offline Top-of-the-hill

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Re: 1939 register queries
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 24 May 22 21:15 BST (UK) »
  I understand that now, and that may be the answer in the case of Harry and Edith, but I am still puzzled about all the other entries in this part of the register showing a similar thing.
 
Pay, Kent
Codham/Coltham, Kent
Kent, Felton, Essex
Staples, Wiltshire

Offline Nick_Ips

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Re: 1939 register queries
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 24 May 22 21:19 BST (UK) »
  I understand that now, and that may be the answer in the case of Harry and Edith, but I am still puzzled about all the other entries in this part of the register showing a similar thing.

The same thing...  An occupation spanned over multiple lines?

Offline phil57

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Re: 1939 register queries
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 25 May 22 10:49 BST (UK) »
Andrew when I was exhibiting at the FindMyPast shows at Olympia we were treated to a meal at the end of the first day.  This was in reality a chance for FindMyPast to tell you what they had planned etc for the coming year and for us to feedback what we thought of the previous years releases.  The 1939 was a hot topic and of course one of the people there wanted to know if their own name would appear.  We were told that no they would not as they had to redact all entries of anyone who was not 100 years old or hadnt been declared deceased by the NHS which is what these records were added to.  We were also told that the strips they had were awful things and were laid on top of the lines and then the images taken.  We also asked where the digitisation was being conducted at and were reliably informed overseas.  As with a lot of the images these digitise they do this in India etc so as not to have people over here releasing information that others would pay for. 

If these were digital redactions they would be perfect and not all over the place like the ones in this image I would say
Rob, thanks for this info.  It explains why updates can take so long, if new images have to made with strips removed.  Seems a clumsy way to go about things to me.

I'm not sure that can be correct, as applications for redacted entries can be opened by FindMyPast or TNA. If you apply to FindMyPast as a subscriber there is no charge, but TNA charge a fee.

I have applied to FindMyPast with copies of relevant death certificates and had three redacted records opened in the last few months. In each case the opened image with the blanking line removed from the relevant individual was available at FindMyPast within 24 hours, one was actually done within 2 hours. I understand that the exchange between FindMyPast and TNA can take much longer though, and that it may be a month or more before a redacted entry reopened by FindMyPast becomes available at TNA, and vice versa.

Ancestry get their copies direct from TNA at much longer intervals. I recently received one of their regular emails informing me that their 1939 register images had been updated with thousands of entries reopened. So they presumably had recently received copies of the pages that had been updated by either FindMyPast or TNA within the previous 12 months.
Stokes - London and Essex
Hodges - Somerset
Murden - Notts
Humphries/Humphreys from Montgomeryshire

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: 1939 register queries
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 25 May 22 10:56 BST (UK) »
Per FindMyPast's 1 April update:

"We've added an immense 117,965 new records to this collection, which were all previously redacted due to privacy laws."......

"As well as having more extensive search features, we are the 'official home' of the 1939 Register, and will be the first online resource to release previously-redacted records as they become available"

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/blog/new/sheffield-northamptonshire-baptisms
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Offline Top-of-the-hill

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Re: 1939 register queries
« Reply #31 on: Friday 27 May 22 22:27 BST (UK) »
  I emailed FindMyPast, and they replied today. Earlier in the thread there was a suggestion that an occupation took up more than one line, and I am wondering if this is the case with some of the other entries, including this one.
Pay, Kent
Codham/Coltham, Kent
Kent, Felton, Essex
Staples, Wiltshire

Offline Andrew Tarr

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Re: 1939 register queries
« Reply #32 on: Friday 27 May 22 22:56 BST (UK) »
What might be the reason for redacting a blank line ? Does it 'belong' to any individual ? It can't be part of the line above, as that was always visible ?
Tarr, Tydeman, Liversidge, Bartlett, Young

Offline phil57

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Re: 1939 register queries
« Reply #33 on: Saturday 28 May 22 10:05 BST (UK) »
What might be the reason for redacting a blank line ? Does it 'belong' to any individual ? It can't be part of the line above, as that was always visible ?

I agree. As FindMyPast have the ability to apply or remove the "record closed" lines, I would reply asking them what purpose that particular redaction serves, as it isn't protecting anyone's identity. In fact, it could mislead a viewer into believing that an individual exists where there isn't one, possibly causing additional fruitless research. I would ask them if it and any other similar redactions on the page could be removed for that reason.
Stokes - London and Essex
Hodges - Somerset
Murden - Notts
Humphries/Humphreys from Montgomeryshire

Offline Iain...

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Re: 1939 register queries
« Reply #34 on: Saturday 28 May 22 10:10 BST (UK) »
   I have 2 questions about the attached clip.

Hi...   I had a similar issue a few years back. 
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=823241.0

McArthur - Campbeltown and Tiree Scotland
Black - Campbeltown Scotland - Rathlin Ireland
MacFarlane - Tiree
Wood / Boorman / Gimber / Lee... KENT
Dennett / Mase / Varrier /  Over... KENT

Offline Nick_Ips

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Re: 1939 register queries
« Reply #35 on: Saturday 28 May 22 10:56 BST (UK) »
What might be the reason for redacting a blank line ?

Notwithstanding acorngen's post about the redaction 'strips' being applied manually, I understood that they were computer generated using an algorithm which attempted to follow the line regardless of optical curves in the page and/or misalignment between the left and right pages per image.  Hence some of the 'strips' having a dogleg in them, and not always in the correct place. (Iain...'s Folkestone examples being classic cases where the algorithm got it completely wrong).

In which case, a blank line would have no year of birth, and with no year of birth the algorithm would not know whether or not that line should be redacted and therefore should logically redact it by default.

I've seen various cases of blank lines - or cases where the birth year was missing or mistranscribed - which were redacted in the original release, but have been unredacted now.

I don't know as fact this is how the redaction process worked, but have a feeling I read something to that effect.  Furthermore, it would make more sense that these errors were made by some software AI process which wasn't 100% accurate rather than them being made by a human applying a physical 'strip' over the original document before the image was captured.  I don't think anyone could justify how a human could come up with the result in Iain...'s example, unless the human was deliberately making gross mistakes.