Author Topic: Finding birth record  (Read 1929 times)

Offline sophiamarina

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Finding birth record
« on: Friday 10 June 22 02:05 BST (UK) »
Hello all. One of my great-grandfathers is currently a dead end, and I'm all out of ideas. I have a theory he might have changed surnames - how does this sound?

I have him in the 1901, 1911 and 1921 censuses. I also have his marriage certificate from 1910.

1901 census - says he is single
1910 marriage cert - says he is a widower, but I cannot find any record of the first marriage. Also simply says "Deceased" for father. This is what's given me the idea that he may have been born out of wedlock, as my experience is that even a deceased father would be named.

1911 and 1921 censuses consistent with 1901 census regarding age, place of birth and occupation. (Looks like he shaved a few years off his age on the marriage cert, perhaps because his bride, my great-grandmother, was a fair bit younger, but I've no doubt it's him).

What I'm missing is his entire life before 1901 - i.e. his birth and youth. He was born around 1877, and I have searched the records of the area he consistently claimed to have been born in, but those with his name turn out not to be him (e.g. same person still living there in later censuses when my ancestor had moved away). I then wondered whether he had been born under a different surname, and then later acquired his surname from a stepfather perhaps - or changed it for another reason. Therefore, his early records and first marriage could be under a different name (though that would mean a period of overlap since the 1901 census was presumably before the first marriage).

Does this sound possible? Any tips for how I could check this theory? Or am I missing something obvious? I know it's a little far fetched but I'd love to solve the mystery!

Unfortunately he had a really common name - both first name and surname - so it's a bit of a needle in a haystack job. I also can't find him or his wife in the 1939 register, though she was definitely alive and I think he was too. And I haven't found a death certificate for him yet. So, I don't know his exact date of birth.

Any tips appreciated!

Offline Jamjar

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Re: Finding birth record
« Reply #1 on: Friday 10 June 22 02:14 BST (UK) »
If you want help you need to give us his name, marriage, location on censuses etc.

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Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Finding birth record
« Reply #2 on: Friday 10 June 22 02:14 BST (UK) »

Start with the piece of information that you know to be him, and containing details that he gives about himself - the 1910 marriage certificate.

Can you please list all the information on the marriage certificate......everything please....all the details on the certificate.

Offline CaroleW

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Re: Finding birth record
« Reply #3 on: Friday 10 June 22 11:43 BST (UK) »
Without more details it's impossible to reach any conclusions.  Illegitimacy is very possible & his surname could be that of anybody who brought him up - not necessarily a stepfather.

If his mother married between his birth & the 1881 census he could appear on censuses under her married name but then chosen to be known under his birth surname as an adult.   

It's all guesswork without the info requested above
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Offline sophiamarina

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Re: Finding birth record
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 12 June 22 08:03 BST (UK) »
Thank you for all the replies and apologies for taking my time, been a bit busy!

Marriage certificate details:
7th July 1910, Ashcombe, Devon
Name: John Morris
Age: 31
Condition: Widower
Rank or Professional: Boots Manager (that's what it looks like; I know he was a shoe and boot shop manager so it makes sense).
Residence at time of marriage: Exeter St Paul's
Father's name and surname: "Deceased"
Father's Rank or Profession: (left blank)

Just going to track down the census returns as they're not where I thought I'd saved them. But for info till then, he claimed to be born in Ruabon, North Wales - probably a few years before the marriage certificate suggests, as he is a little older on other documents. (He's my only known Welsh ancestor, so I'd be interested to know how far back that goes!)

If anyone has access to census returns (I no longer have any subscriptions) and wants to beat me to it, you will find him and his wife Gladys the following year in Exeter St Paul's, in the 1911 census. In 1921 he is 43 and living in Tonypandy. He is also listed on this page which mentions the 1901 census (he was then in Cardiff): http://sites.rootsweb.com/~publicbenefit/biogio.html

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Finding birth record
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 12 June 22 08:12 BST (UK) »


All the information on the 1910 marriage certificate should include all details about the bride...also witnesses names...church married in.......

If you have relevant comments about the information on the certificate, you should place them after the information.

You have the document, people on this forum do not have access to the document. We only know what you tell us about the information on the marriage certificate.

Offline sophiamarina

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Re: Finding birth record
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 12 June 22 08:15 BST (UK) »
Just to add - I've found my copy of the 1901 census return. Not sure how best to quote the reference - it says at the bottom RG13/4985, does that allow you to find the page? He is boarding at 18 Rawdon Place, Cardiff. The head of household is a John Whittington age 54, wife Caroline.

Interesting that my GGF is listed as an English speaker only, not even "both" languages. I don't know if that was completely normal for someone from North Wales at the time, or if it means anything. I remember looking at various earlier census returns for the Ruabon/Mold areas trying to find him, but I can't remember how common Welsh speaking seemed to be in that time and place.

Online KGarrad

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Re: Finding birth record
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 12 June 22 08:35 BST (UK) »
Census references contain 4 pieces of information:
Class: The National Archives reference (RG13 = 1901, RG12 = 1891, RG11 = 1881, etc)
Piece No: the subdivision (you have 4985)

There then should follow the Folio No, and Page No.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline sophiamarina

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Re: Finding birth record
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 12 June 22 08:45 BST (UK) »
Census references contain 4 pieces of information:
Class: The National Archives reference (RG13 = 1901, RG12 = 1891, RG11 = 1881, etc)
Piece No: the subdivision (you have 4985)

There then should follow the Folio No, and Page No.

I think Folio is 112 and page is 68.