Author Topic: Nature or Nurture  (Read 1167 times)

Offline AngelJunction

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Nature or Nurture
« on: Friday 10 June 22 14:18 BST (UK) »
Is it possible to know the DNA of famous geniuses like James Clerk Maxwell, Gauss, Euler, Mozart, Bach etc. ? How is the old Nature / Nurture debate getting on in the new DNA testing world we live in ? Has it been resolved ?

Offline Kiltpin

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Re: Nature or Nurture
« Reply #1 on: Friday 10 June 22 14:30 BST (UK) »
I thought that it had been established that physical attributes were down to nature, whereas character traits were down to nurture. You can train someone to be honest, but you can't teach them how to be taller. 

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Chas
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Offline coombs

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Re: Nature or Nurture
« Reply #2 on: Friday 10 June 22 14:54 BST (UK) »
I am sure many behavioural traits are also down to nature as well, not just nurture. Some people find it hard to accept but if your parent had a quick temper, and so do you, then it is a no brainer. Something you inherited. Psychopaths are born, not made. Several researchers have done this, and I believe arrogant people, psychopaths and bullies are born with these disorders, but something merely exacerbates it.
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DORSET Coombs, Munday
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SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
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OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline Kiltpin

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Re: Nature or Nurture
« Reply #3 on: Friday 10 June 22 15:23 BST (UK) »
I am sure many behavioural traits are also down to nature as well, not just nurture. Some people find it hard to accept but if your parent had a quick temper, and so do you, then it is a no brainer. Something you inherited.

I do not think that is clear-cut. Children learn by copying their parents - monkey see, monkey do. As an adult, we are the sum total of all our experiences, and we react to any given situation by our own experience and not by the experiences of others. What if a child is a foundling - no known parents. His height, hair and eye colour are down to the unknown parents, but how he treats his fellow men is down to how he himself was treated in his formative years.

Psychopaths are born, not made.

We will have to differ on that. There have been too many psychopaths born to good, loving, caring, God-fearing parents to make such a sweeping statement.

Several researchers have done this, and I believe arrogant people, psychopaths and bullies are born with these disorders, but something merely exacerbates it. 

Bullies have been shown to have been bullied themselves. Again learned behaviour. I do not believe that arrogance is a disorder any more than loving, or caring, or introspection, or self-doubt. 

 

Regards 

Chas
Whannell - Eaton - Jackson
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Offline coombs

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Re: Nature or Nurture
« Reply #4 on: Friday 10 June 22 15:40 BST (UK) »
I am sure many behavioural traits are also down to nature as well, not just nurture. Some people find it hard to accept but if your parent had a quick temper, and so do you, then it is a no brainer. Something you inherited.

I do not think that is clear-cut. Children learn by copying their parents - monkey see, monkey do. As an adult, we are the sum total of all our experiences, and we react to any given situation by our own experience and not by the experiences of others. What if a child is a foundling - no known parents. His height, hair and eye colour are down to the unknown parents, but how he treats his fellow men is down to how he himself was treated in his formative years.

Psychopaths are born, not made.

We will have to differ on that. There have been too many psychopaths born to good, loving, caring, God-fearing parents to make such a sweeping statement.

Several researchers have done this, and I believe arrogant people, psychopaths and bullies are born with these disorders, but something merely exacerbates it. 

Bullies have been shown to have been bullied themselves. Again learned behaviour. I do not believe that arrogance is a disorder any more than loving, or caring, or introspection, or self-doubt. 

 

Regards 

Chas

You sound like one of those defence lawyers who tries to get ghastly and very abhorrent criminals off a huge charge for wrecking other peoples lives, with the "tough childhood" cliche. Many people had tough childhood but turned out great, so that "tough childhood" theory is just a cop out.

 I am a bit like Judge Judy, she does not accept the sob stories and waterworks. She believes people are born with some of these traits, but they can be exacerbated.
Researching:

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DORSET Coombs, Munday
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KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline AngelJunction

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Re: Nature or Nurture
« Reply #5 on: Friday 10 June 22 15:43 BST (UK) »
I've just watched some Boston Dynamics videos.  As I'm just a blue collar prole it looks like nobody going to care about my nature or nurture anyways !

Offline Kiltpin

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Re: Nature or Nurture
« Reply #6 on: Friday 10 June 22 15:55 BST (UK) »
I am sure many behavioural traits are also down to nature as well, not just nurture. Some people find it hard to accept but if your parent had a quick temper, and so do you, then it is a no brainer. Something you inherited.

I do not think that is clear-cut. Children learn by copying their parents - monkey see, monkey do. As an adult, we are the sum total of all our experiences, and we react to any given situation by our own experience and not by the experiences of others. What if a child is a foundling - no known parents. His height, hair and eye colour are down to the unknown parents, but how he treats his fellow men is down to how he himself was treated in his formative years.

Psychopaths are born, not made.

We will have to differ on that. There have been too many psychopaths born to good, loving, caring, God-fearing parents to make such a sweeping statement.

Several researchers have done this, and I believe arrogant people, psychopaths and bullies are born with these disorders, but something merely exacerbates it. 

Bullies have been shown to have been bullied themselves. Again learned behaviour. I do not believe that arrogance is a disorder any more than loving, or caring, or introspection, or self-doubt. 

 

Regards 

Chas

You sound like one of those defence lawyers who tries to get ghastly and very abhorrent criminals off a huge charge for wrecking other peoples lives, with the "tough childhood" cliche. Many people had tough childhood but turned out great, so that "tough childhood" theory is just a cop out.

 I am a bit like Judge Judy, she does not accept the sob stories and waterworks. She believes people are born with some of these traits, but they can be exacerbated.
 

WOW! And here I thought that we were having a reasonable debate, but in reality it was a slanging match, and I was not aware of it. 

As for "Judge Judy" she is part of the entertainment industry and her shows pander to the masses. She gives people what they want to see and hear. She gets the ratings, her shows carry on, and she gets another pay-cheque. 

Finally, if "a tough childhood theory is just a cop out", then according to you, it is their parents fault for passing on the wrong, or bad genes. So whatever crime they have committed is their parent's fault and not theirs. 

You can't have it both ways.
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Offline coombs

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Re: Nature or Nurture
« Reply #7 on: Friday 10 June 22 16:46 BST (UK) »
I am sure many behavioural traits are also down to nature as well, not just nurture. Some people find it hard to accept but if your parent had a quick temper, and so do you, then it is a no brainer. Something you inherited.

I do not think that is clear-cut. Children learn by copying their parents - monkey see, monkey do. As an adult, we are the sum total of all our experiences, and we react to any given situation by our own experience and not by the experiences of others. What if a child is a foundling - no known parents. His height, hair and eye colour are down to the unknown parents, but how he treats his fellow men is down to how he himself was treated in his formative years.

Psychopaths are born, not made.

We will have to differ on that. There have been too many psychopaths born to good, loving, caring, God-fearing parents to make such a sweeping statement.

Several researchers have done this, and I believe arrogant people, psychopaths and bullies are born with these disorders, but something merely exacerbates it. 

Bullies have been shown to have been bullied themselves. Again learned behaviour. I do not believe that arrogance is a disorder any more than loving, or caring, or introspection, or self-doubt. 

 

Regards 

Chas

You sound like one of those defence lawyers who tries to get ghastly and very abhorrent criminals off a huge charge for wrecking other peoples lives, with the "tough childhood" cliche. Many people had tough childhood but turned out great, so that "tough childhood" theory is just a cop out.

 I am a bit like Judge Judy, she does not accept the sob stories and waterworks. She believes people are born with some of these traits, but they can be exacerbated.
 

As for "Judge Judy" she is part of the entertainment industry and her shows pander to the masses. She gives people what they want to see and hear. She gets the ratings, her shows carry on, and she gets another pay-cheque.   

I disagree strongly. She has always come across as honest and sounded very genuine.
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline Stanwix England

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Re: Nature or Nurture
« Reply #8 on: Friday 10 June 22 18:33 BST (UK) »
It's an interesting debate, and not one I think we will ever entirely get to the bottom of. DNA is so complicated, particularly when you start looking at the relationships between different genes and how they can interact with each other.

I do think that nature plays quite a strong hand. I'm thinking of one family with two children, where the children have very different personalities from each other. Both lovely girls, but very different. Their parents are lovely and have provided a good supportive environment, and the girls have grown into very different people. I think that must be nature.
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