Author Topic: Words from a 1640s will  (Read 1044 times)

Offline PaulStaffs

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Words from a 1640s will
« on: Tuesday 14 June 22 20:07 BST (UK) »
I have an inventory of goods, each line starts and ends with the same two words followed by the valuation as per this example. Can someone tell me what the words are please? The first looks a bit like 'from' and the last 'sprise'

Thank you,

Paul

Offline PaulStaffs

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Re: Words from a 1640s will
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 14 June 22 20:18 BST (UK) »
Ooops, just realised the first word is 'Item'.

Offline arthurk

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Re: Words from a 1640s will
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 14 June 22 20:25 BST (UK) »
I'm wondering if the last word is 'Price'. Upper case 'P' did sometimes start with a flourish like this, and the next to last letter is 'c' as in 'bacon'.

Offline PaulStaffs

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Re: Words from a 1640s will
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 14 June 22 20:26 BST (UK) »
Yes I've just realised that too - it's the weird 'p' that was throwing me! Many thanks.


Offline PaulStaffs

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Re: Words from a 1640s will
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 15 June 22 09:18 BST (UK) »
I could do with some help with various parts of the inventory. Here's what I have for this section if anyone can help with the missing words...

Item one Brasse panne 3 brasse pots 4 kettles
Two posnets one warminge panne one [skinner?] price £3 0 0

Item forty [peeces?] of [puter?] great and small price [£1 10?]

Item 4 spitts one paire of [forkes?] 3 fire[ ] 2 paires
of tonges one drippinge panne one jacke 3 grates
one fleshforke one [cleefer?] price £2 6 8

Item 2 paire of bellowes 2 [brand?] irons one
frynge panne one gridiron one iron posnet price £5 0 0

Item one table in the (kitchen?] one table in the
Buttrie one table & [cabbenet?] in the hall
5 paires disshes & boles & other wooden
vessels 3 [ ] & shelves
2 hogsheds 4 barrels 2 [wee..?]
2 brewing [ ] & [ ] [ ] other
[necessaries?] price £2 10 0

Offline arthurk

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Re: Words from a 1640s will
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 15 June 22 15:48 BST (UK) »
You've got most of it and I agree with a lot of your guesses, but there are a few I'm unsure of, so other opinions welcome. This is my take - I've replaced or confirmed what you put in brackets with bold suggestions, and added a few comments in italics:

Item one Brasse panne 3 brasse pots 4 kettles
Two posnets one warminge panne one skimer price £3 0 0 (= skimmer)

Item forty peeces of puter great and small price [£1 10?] (pieces of pewter)

Item 4 spitts one paire of Rackes 3 fireshoveles 2 paires
of tonges one drippinge panne one jacke 3 grates
one fleshforke one cleefer price £2 6 8

Item 2 paire of bellowes 2 brand irons one (or brands?)
frynge panne one gridiron one iron posnet price £5 0 0

Item one table in the kichen one table in the
Buttrie one table & cubbeart in the hall (= cupboard)
5 paires disshes & boles & other wooden
vessels 3 formes & shelves
2 hogsheds 4 barrels 2 [wee..?] (weetingfats? whatever that is  :-\)
2 brewing lomes & Cooler wth other (wth = with; what's a lome?)
necessaries price £2 10 0

Offline PaulStaffs

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Re: Words from a 1640s will
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 15 June 22 15:57 BST (UK) »
Thank you arthurk, much appreciated. I'd independently got some of those since my earlier post and they almost all agree with your interpretation, I'm guessing skimmer is for skimming off milk, not sure what the 'formes', ' lomes' or 'cooler' could be - cooler is mentioned again a little later on - but I did learn the word 'posnet' today :D

I'll post the final section shortly, if you could look it over that would be fantastic.

Many thanks

Paul

Offline arthurk

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Re: Words from a 1640s will
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 15 June 22 16:16 BST (UK) »
At primary school in Yorkshire, many years ago, I remember we called some long benches 'forms', and I think that would fit here. 'Cooler' is probably just that since it's connected with brewing in this extract, but I've no idea what it would have been in a pre-electrical age.

You might be able to find some other terms in Joseph Wright's Dialect Dictionary - http://www.rootschat.com/links/01j6q/

This gives one meaning of 'loom' as 'receptacle'. 'weeting' - I was wondering if this might be to do with weighing, but as Wright gives 'fat' as a variant of 'vat', I wonder now if it might be 'wetting'? I've only had a quick look, so you might like to spend longer there - try to take account of unusual (to us) and/or dialect spellings and pronunciations.

Offline PaulStaffs

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Re: Words from a 1640s will
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 15 June 22 16:30 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the link. Re 'forms', perhaps that's where the school form as in 'sixth form' comes from, I'd never really thought about that before.

Here's the second half:

Item six [coolers?] of [lead?]
milke pannes butter pots & [treavhens??] £13 4 0

Item [chesepresse?] [churne?] [chesefat??]
and other wooden ware within the
house not mentioned price £5 0 0

Item butter & chese bacon price £2 6 8

Item [Rie?] [ ] price £2

Item malt in the house price £4 0 0

Item 2 [gunnes?] 2 crosbowes & Arrowes
one sword one hanger 2 longe
bowes one quiver of arrowes together
with his wearinge apparell 2 saddles £52 13 4

Item [Rie?] & [ ] on the [grannd/ground] [hearth/with]
[And] [perse?] [ ] A little before he died £51 0 0

Item 2 paire of iron bound wheels one cart [ ]
one tumbrell horse [ ] plow irons and other
[ ] for [horses?] 2 plowes one paire of harrowes
with other husbandinge [ ] [ ] £2