Author Topic: Hearing about jobs in distant places  (Read 784 times)

Offline Top-of-the-hill

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,373
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Hearing about jobs in distant places
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 23 June 22 10:15 BST (UK) »
  That is interesting - certainly if you read through the census lists of staff in country houses, they are from all over the country, or at least from the region. I can imagine employers thinking like that!
Pay, Kent
Codham/Coltham, Kent
Kent, Felton, Essex
Staples, Wiltshire

Offline Lyndon

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
    • View Profile
Re: Hearing about jobs in distant places
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 23 June 22 12:12 BST (UK) »
As well as the above, it may also have been similar to today - word of mouth and personal recommendation.  :) 

Did they have family in the Burton area?

Maybe the new job paid more and came with accomodation so might have been attractive to your ancestor as a married man with a baby. People used to travel long distances with families in tow, and fifty miles wasn’t that far.  :)
I can see the attraction of moving to a good job, and good accomodation, and think this may be the case here. What I don't get is how he heard of/applied for the job. Would he have dragged the family up there on the off-chance? Possibly thought he was sure to get a job in the brewery and struck lucky with the gardening job? I try to go through this process with any of the family that moved, but can't make sense of this one.
Never underestimate how people moved around, even before the advent of trains. I know your case is 1866 when it was a bit easier, but people always did move for work, often far away from where they were born, and 50 miles was a long way in those days.

I have many ancestors from South East Essex who descend from people who came from Suffolk and SE Cambridgeshire, and the internal migrants moved to Essex in the 1700s.

And I have a few Lincolnshire ancestors who moved to Essex and mentioned family back in Lincs in their wills. Plus my Sussex lot has taken me back to Norfolk, Somerset and Cheshire as a Sussex ancestor was a barrister in the 1600s and wed a well to do girl of Cheshire and Norfolk descent. Plus many more instances. Wills have verified this, plus other documents like school admissions/apprenticeships etc.


I can understand how ag labs moved around. That still goes on doesn't it? I can see how it works for well educated people too. But my feeling is that gardening jobs would be a lot harder to come across, so trying to figure out whether he took a chance and hoped to get a job there or whether there was a mechanism by which it would have been possible to secure a job from a distance. The fun for me is trying to understand people's motivations and thought processes.  Were they risk takers/driven by poverty/know that they were moving to something better. I often feel I am able to understand it, but less so in this case.
Watkins - Swansea. Thomas - Carmarthenshire. Stock - Rowberrow. Jarman - Montgomeryshire. Duck - Calne. Watts - Frome.

Offline Lyndon

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
    • View Profile
Re: Hearing about jobs in distant places
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 23 June 22 12:20 BST (UK) »
  That is interesting - certainly if you read through the census lists of staff in country houses, they are from all over the country, or at least from the region. I can imagine employers thinking like that!
Good point. I'll start looking at the census for Stapenhill House and Manor House. Perhaps I can aslo get myself a list of gardeners in the area and see where they come from.
Thanks.
Watkins - Swansea. Thomas - Carmarthenshire. Stock - Rowberrow. Jarman - Montgomeryshire. Duck - Calne. Watts - Frome.

Offline coombs

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,587
  • Research the dead....forget the living.
    • View Profile
Re: Hearing about jobs in distant places
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 23 June 22 12:26 BST (UK) »
I guess gardening jobs were probably by word of mouth, or even advertised in local newspapers etc, similar to how other jobs were advertised.

The fact you had people from another part of the country in the 1851 census for example, if there ever had been a 1701 or 1751 census which gave place of birth, I doubt there would be much difference in the diversity of internal migration. Hence why you may have to consider this if you cannot find an ancestor locally before census era. But verifying that is another story.

My ancestor was Joseph Stillington of Romford, who wed in 1728 at the Fleet. His surname is a name found in Leicestershire and Derbyshire usually. That is probably where he or his family originate.

I have a college servant called William Inkpen in Oxford who wed there in 1765. His surname is not an Oxon name. It is a surname that is rife in Dorset and Sussex, with some in Kent. I am sure he was from one of these counties, and moved to Oxford for work.
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain


Offline Tickettyboo

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,068
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Hearing about jobs in distant places
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 23 June 22 14:52 BST (UK) »
He was young, but old enough to have possibly been well trained by the head gardener at his current position.

Unlikely to have had opportunity for advancement in his current position, maybe the folk in the big house had visitors who wanted an experienced gardener and they offered him a position at a higher level of status and pay than his current one.

Their hosts would still have their head gardener, plus under gardeners who were also being trained.
The visitors got a head gardener with experience and a good reference.
The man got an advancement and more money

Result all round
Boo

Offline Rena

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,373
  • Crown Copyright: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Hearing about jobs in distant places
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 23 June 22 16:45 BST (UK) »
Whilst researching OHs Shirras family in Aberdeenshire I came across a few late 1700s newspaper articles about flower and vegetable competitions.   The results were announced at a Dinner in the evening and amongst the announced winners were "gardener of Lord X" and also entries by men with the title of "Mr".

In those days early local town and county newspapers had a column headed "Intelligence", in which various short articles were printed.  This is possibly how people in one county learned about the situation in another county or town.   

Of course, once one family member, or once one local had departed their home territory they naturally sent letters back home to tell the latest news, which could even be about job vacancies.
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline Annie65115

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,738
  • HOLYLAND regd with guild of one name studies
    • View Profile
Re: Hearing about jobs in distant places
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 23 June 22 17:47 BST (UK) »
I once heard an article on radio 4 about Victorian gardeners moving around the country. Apparently this was very much a Done Thing - the idea being that you worked in different microclimates, with different soils, on different types of gardening projects, and thus enhanced your CV.

I took particular notice as my ancestor moved from working as a gardener at Powis Castle to working as a priate gardener in Liverpool!
Bradbury (Sedgeley, Bilston, Warrington)
Cooper (Sedgeley, Bilston)
Kilner/Kilmer (Leic, Notts)
Greenfield (Liverpool)
Holyland (Anywhere and everywhere, also Holiland Holliland Hollyland)
Pryce/Price (Welshpool, Liverpool)
Rawson (Leicester)
Upton (Desford, Leics)
Partrick (Vera and George, Leicester)
Marshall (Westmorland, Cheshire/Leicester)

Offline coombs

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,587
  • Research the dead....forget the living.
    • View Profile
Re: Hearing about jobs in distant places
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 23 June 22 18:05 BST (UK) »
As London was expanding, there were a number of market gardens near the brick fields which were probably being earmarked for development. I have seen several on 1860s maps of the Hackney and Stoke Newington area.

I also have a family of gardeners on Chiswick, Strand On The Green in the late 1600s and early 1700s.
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,706
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Hearing about jobs in distant places
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 23 June 22 19:28 BST (UK) »
It's 1866. There's someone working as a gardener in Chipping Warden. He's 24 years old, not been married long, and has a 1 year old son. They decide to pack their bags and travel to Stapenhill (just east of Burton upon Trent, over the river).


Which county is Chipping Warden in (or which county in 1866)? Which newspapers were read there at the time? Which towns are nearby & did they have newspapers? Adverts used to be on front page.
Cowban