What happened to Thomas and Bridget Greenwood?

[Althea7]

I have long wondered why my ancestors Thomas Greenwood (1817 Hebden Bridge-1873 Manchester) and his wife Bridget Ward (1823 Ireland-1867 Manchester), nor their two known children, were not on the 1861 census.

I found one newspaper report that is definitely them.  The Guardian 27th October 1856 says Thomas Greenwood, a licensed marine store dealer in River Street, Hulme was charged with Bridget his wife and Ann McGuire of stealing lead.

I know that on a lot of records Thomas Greenwood is a Marine Store Dealer and Waste Dealer, on the birth certificates of both his sons, his marriage record to Bridget in 1846 Manchester, and 1855 Slaters Directory of Manchester he is shown as a Marine Store Dealer in River Street.  On the 1851 census he is at 3 Clegg Court (near River Street and Medlock Street, Hulme), age 32 Broker with wife Bridget 28, sons Hiram 4 and James 3, and Betsy Ward 23 and John Ward 14.

There is also a report in the Preston Herald 14th April 1866 of Thomas Greenwood a marine store and waste dealer in Todmorden, charged as receiver of stolen weft and other articles. I am fairly sure this is him, but not absolutely certain, as he was born in Hebden Bridge but lived most of his life in Manchester where his family moved to around 1823.

I think I have the right death certificates for Bridget and Thomas, but not certain they are correct.  1867 death of wife Bridget at 1 Court, Bennett Street, now Bendix Street, Ancoats, Manchester.  Death certificate says "Wife of Thomas Greenwood, Porter".  There was a Smithfield market in Ancoats which employed mostly Irish porters, and Bridget was Irish born and her family seemed to be close to Thomas. 

I have a death certificate for Thomas Greenwood on 12th March 1873 at 63 Long Millgate, age 56.  Card Picker.  Informant Ann Greenwood.  On the 1871 census there is a Thomas Greenwood living with Ann Greenwood.  I wonder if this is the Ann McGuire mentioned in the 1856 newspaper report?  I have long thought she was Bridget sister, born Ann Ward?  Maybe she married, as a widow, Thomas after Bridget died?  Maybe they were too poor to marry and she just took his name as common law wife?

There is a burial 15th March 1873 at Philips Park Cemetery, Manchester, of Thomas Greenwood.  Gives his occupation as Millhand.

Does anyone know if there are reports of whether they were charged on either occasion in these newspaper reports?  Especially the 1856 one, as I wonder if that is tied up with their absence from the 1861 census?  What sort of punishments were usually given for this kind of thing?  Would it just be the loss of Thomas' trading license?

[Maiden Stone]

Have you checked if parts of 1861 census of Manchester are missing?

[CaroleW]

Nothing mentioned for Lancashire

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01rnj/

[Althea7]

Thanks for that link, I didn't realise you could check for missing bits of censuses.  I had thoroughly looked for this family on the 1861 census and couldn't find them, as if they were somewhere else at that time.

[Comberton]

Re the 1866 crime. Preston Chronicle 19th May 1866 shows Thomas Greenwood  was sentenced to 5 years penal servitude. Rochdale Observer 21st April gives his father as James.

[Althea7]

Re the 1866 crime. Preston Chronicle 19th May 1866 shows Thomas Greenwood  was sentenced to 5 years penal servitude. Rochdale Observer 21st April gives his father as James.

Thanks for that information.  My ancestor Thomas Greenwood's father was called Henry, and he died in Ancoats, Manchester in 1847.  Thomas' wife Bridget's father was called James, and their second son was called James Henry Greenwood.  I suspected that Bridget's father James Ward was on the 1841 census in Medlock Streeet, Hulme, Manchester occupation Broker, born Ireland, and that he was also a marine store keeper.

I am not certain about those two death certificates in Manchester of Thomas and Bridget Greenwood.  Their last definite sighting was the 1851 census, the 1855 Slater's Directory of Manchester and the 1856 newspaper report about them being accused of stealing lead.  After that anything could have happened to them.  Their son Hiram turned up in Greengate, Salford on the 1871 census with a wife and two young daughters born in Salford in 1867 and 1869.  I could never find a marriage record for Hiram and his wife Mary Ann Roche either, so I wondered if the family were in another country for a while.

Do your newspaper reports mention his wife or children?

[Comberton]

I can't find the 1856 report on FindMyPast so can't help with the outcome of that charge. 
Is it a national paper or local?
No mention of wife or children in 1866

[Althea7]

The 1856 case was in The Guardian - 27 Oct 1856 - Page 5.

I found it on Newspapers.com.

The 1866 case in Todmorden I found in the British Newspaper Archives.

[Maiden Stone]

Re the 1866 crime. Preston Chronicle 19th May 1866 shows Thomas Greenwood  was sentenced to 5 years penal servitude. Rochdale Observer 21st April gives his father as James.

Wouldn't including his father's name be an indication that Thomas was a young man, or was working for his father?