Author Topic: Please help interpret this Liverpool Address 1870  (Read 421 times)

Offline Fat Bob

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Please help interpret this Liverpool Address 1870
« on: Tuesday 12 July 22 20:37 BST (UK) »
Hi

This is regarding Elizabeth Wignall. She was admitted to Liverpool Workhouse in 1870 and died there. I am trying to decipher the address she came from. It reads on the register, as far as I can see, as

6.H.10.S Faulkner Street.

Faulkner Street was quite wealthy and EW was poor so I guess this must be a cellar or servants quarters? Any suggestions welcome.

I appreciate that I should include the original document, but I have failed to succeed in attaching it. Whatever I do I just get error messages. I am no novice regarding ICT, and use other sites without problem,but cannot get this mechanism to work. Apologies, I have tried!

Bob

Offline sarah

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Re: Please help interpret this Liverpool Address 1870
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 12 July 22 20:41 BST (UK) »
Hi Bob,

What does the error message say, that normally gives a clue to the problem ? Please do not preview the post before posting, better to post and modify if you have made an error ;)

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Offline Stanwix England

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Re: Please help interpret this Liverpool Address 1870
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 12 July 22 21:17 BST (UK) »
It's most likely that your image is too big for this site to accept it. The limit is 500k I believe.

You can either resize the image on your own computer.

Or you can use one of the free online services that does it for you.

https://picresize.com
;D Doing my best, but frequently wrong ;D
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Offline Annie65115

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Re: Please help interpret this Liverpool Address 1870
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 12 July 22 21:24 BST (UK) »
Hello Bob,and welcome to Rootschat.

I haven't seen the record so these suggestions are generalisations:

If Elizabeth was admitted from a wealthy street, she could indeed have been a servant. Or maybe she was a street trader, or even a vagrant, literally picked up on/from the street. Plus many "wealthy" streets had much smaller, poorer housing stock literally next door or behind - people would live close to their place of work and large houses needed plenty of servants and tradespeople to keep them going!

I don't know about the date that you state, but as time went by, many workhouses developed a "hospital" function, so she may have been admitted as a patient rather than as a workhouse inmate -- which would widen the possibilities of her social background.
Bradbury (Sedgeley, Bilston, Warrington)
Cooper (Sedgeley, Bilston)
Kilner/Kilmer (Leic, Notts)
Greenfield (Liverpool)
Holyland (Anywhere and everywhere, also Holiland Holliland Hollyland)
Pryce/Price (Welshpool, Liverpool)
Rawson (Leicester)
Upton (Desford, Leics)
Partrick (Vera and George, Leicester)
Marshall (Westmorland, Cheshire/Leicester)


Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Please help interpret this Liverpool Address 1870
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 12 July 22 21:31 BST (UK) »
It's Faulkner Street, West Derby, not Falkner Street Liverpool. The address looks like a court. 6 House, 10 Court, I would think.

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBPRS%2FLIVERPOOL%2F614_MIL_1_1_1A%2F0021&parentid=PRS%2FLIVERPOOL%2FWORKHOUSE%2F2098160
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Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Please help interpret this Liverpool Address 1870
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 12 July 22 21:38 BST (UK) »
Here it is in the 1871 census. Seems to be unoccupied.
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Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Please help interpret this Liverpool Address 1870
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 12 July 22 22:28 BST (UK) »
Just emphasise  Annie 65115's point above, by 1870 the workhouses in large populated areas included an infirmary or hospital and the reason that people were admitted to the hospital part had little to do with the reason others were sent to the Workhouse. So she may have been a 'respectable' servant but fell ill and couldn't afford to pay for her treatment. The admissions book may well provide an clue if it records where in the workhouse the person was housed. The fact that she died there, assuming it was fairly soon after admission, reinforces the suggestion that she was admitted as a patient, not as an inmate.

If ShaunJ is right about the address, then presumably this was the West Derby Workhouse on Mill Road which was later renamed the Mill Road Infirmary. Or possibly it was the Walton Workhouse on Rice Lane which became Walton Hospital. Both were part of the West Derby Poor Law Union

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Please help interpret this Liverpool Address 1870
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 12 July 22 23:36 BST (UK) »
Out of curiosity Bob, what was her age and cause of death? (I am wondering if it may have been related to her living conditions)

There are many images online of old Liverpool courts - depressing but fascinating at the same time. All gone now of course.

Welcome to rootschat.  :)

Offline Fat Bob

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Re: Please help interpret this Liverpool Address 1870
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 13 July 22 20:36 BST (UK) »
Wow!

Thanks folks, I wasn't expecting anything like the range of thoughtful responses that have appeared overnight, all of which are most appreciated.

First the technical issues. I did note the file size restriction and reduced mine to 85 kb so that wasn't the issue. The error message I get says that 'Rootschat is unable to deal with this request at present', or words to that effect. I wonder if my security software is to blame? Anyway I'll try again and see what happens.

Elizabeth Wignall was born in 1811 and so was 59 at the time of her death but I do not know the cause. Certainly disease was rife at the time. I am sure she entered the workhouse a few days before death simply because of her poor health.

Elizabeth Wignall's residence. Good spot ShaunJ regarding the spelling of Faulkner / Falkner. There is no Faulkner Street at present in Liverpool as far as google is concerned but I can check that one out. Number 6 Falkner Street still stands and is a listed building and I cant see how it is compatible with court housing, so perhaps a Faulkner Street would have been more in line with the kind of housing EW might have been found in, although I have noted the suggestions made by Annie about the mix of circumstances even within one 'nice' road.

'West Derby' is and was a district in Liverpool, though I also need to keep in mind that it was also the title of the Poor Law Union that included all of the districts that circled Liverpool, from the likes of Crosby in the north all the way around to Toxteth Park in the south.

Without wishing to move too far from the original question I hope you will tolerate my explaining why I am interested in Elizabeth's address at this time.

The main reason for my interest in establishing where Elizabeth W was living is because I am looking for a way to determine where her granddaughter, Ellen W spent her first few years.

Ellen Wignall (1866-1947) was my great grandmother. She was baptised as a Catholic in SS Peter and Paul, Great Crosby on 23rd April 1869, although her dob was 29th May 1866, quite a delay at the time. Her mother's name on the baptismal certificate was Margaret. No father was indicated and she took her mother's surname. I am sure she was illegitimate. She was bitter throughout her life because of abandonment by her mother.

The day after her baptism she was admitted to the West Derby Union Workhouse at Mill Road and stayed there for five weeks before being released / 'boarded out' to a Mrs Ann Wright in Great Crosby.

I have interpreted these facts as suggesting that Ellen was born in a workhouse or taken to one shortly after birth and was 'boarded out' to the Wright family at three years of age. The Wright's were RC and so the baptism would be to provide Ellen with the same Faith. The five weeks stay in Mill Road after the baptism finished as soon as she reached three years of age and so I guess there was a minimum age / threshold for boarding out of 3 years. Certainly by 1870 this age had been standardised across the country at 2 years of age so that seems a reasonable assumption.

The part of the story that is frustrating me is trying to establish where Ellen Wignall was born and where she spent the first 34 months of her life prior to baptism.

Ellen's mother was a Margaret Wignall. I have evaluated several women with that name of child-bearing age in Liverpool at the time and determined that the most likely candidate was Margaret Wignall, born 1844, who was born to Elizabeth and Thomas Wignall. In 1861 this family inhabited the cellar of number 10 Roger Street which was in the West Derby Ward. The street no longer exists but was between Upper Parliament Street and Falkner Street. This Margaret was admitted to Liverpool Workhouse on June 21st 1866, 3 weeks after Ellen's birth and located in 'Class', which was  a location within the workhouse used for known prostitutes and women who had illegitimate births. This looks to me as if the child and mother were separated after a few weeks and the child, Ellen, presumed to be subsequently brought up in a workhouse. The question is which one? The mother has been admitted to the Liverpool Workhouse so the child may have been retained there, but post-baptism she was sent to Mill Road which was a West Derby workhouse. Had she been there since shortly after birth, or just to complete her term after the baptism as she is now under the care of the West Derby guardians (as Crosby is also in West Derby). If you have read this far I take my hat off to you! I hope it makes sense.

My interest in Elizabeth Wignall's address in 1870 is because the family's last known address in Roger St was in 1861 - 5 years before the birth of Ellen, so I don't know if they moved from a West Derby location to a Liverpool one prior to the birth. The mother's address in 1870 is the nearest clue.

I have used FindMyPast and the Liverpool Archives to establish Ellen's place of birth to no avail.

I have established that the West Derby / Mill Road records are mostly missing / lost for the 1860s.

Thank you if you have followed this ramble and any suggestions would again be most appreciated!